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Old 10-29-2008, 11:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Stance GR+ Coilover Review

Edit 3: 10k mile update, September 8, 2009
I started going up north to visit my girlfriend's family and the roads SUCK ... so I raised up the car just a touch. Before, I was almost tucking 205/45/16's up front and 205/50/16's in back. Now, I have about an inch of fender between the tire and fender (getting 18's shortly). I also installed stock swaybars front and rear.

I'm currently on 4/2 front/rear damping and the car rides very well still. It has a nice fluidity to the motions (they're still short motions) so they're very smooth. Handling has gotten better from raising the car. Before, when taking a turn, it would load the suspension up and if there was a bump in the road, the car would feel like it would waver side to side. It wasn't a lot, but I could feel it. The car didn't loose any grip, it just felt weird. After raising the car, it is SOLID through a turn. It's much more confidence inspiring.

Overall, I'm still super impressed with these coilovers!

Slammed Tire wear: I got my toe set to just a touch of toe in for the front and rear, 2* camber up front, 3* rear, 1.5* caster split up front (previous owner bent something on the driver side) and the tires wore very nicely.

Raised Tire Wear: Toe is once again the same, 1.5* camber front, 2 rear, same caster split. Tires are wearing the same!

My advice for an alignment is to go someplace that allows you to sit in the car. In doing so, the alignment is set for how it's going to be driven, so the tires will wear MUCH better than with a podunk alignment.

Edit 2: Road trip

Just took a 500 mile road trip. The car was very smooth for the entire trip, but this is my full opinion.

Over the course of the trip, I had the dampers at 5/15 front and rear and swapped over onto my snow tires (225/50/16 Michelin X-ice @ 46psi). The car was very smooth on the road and when I got to the border of NM and CO, the downhill into CO was super fun, even in the wet =P The car felt very planted in the turns and over the undulations in the road. I never felt like the car was out of control.

The only thing I didn't like (well, I wasn't ready) were transitions from bridges back onto the road. On some, the transitions combined with the speed (95+ mph) and the higher spring rates and soft damping setting caused the car to become pretty unweighted, but the car regained composure as soon as it came back down.

There's also another transition from I25 to highway 36 from Denver to Boulder and with the old suspension, the car would blow through the suspension travel and scratch the bottom of the car on the road =\ With the Stances, the car didn't even come close to bottoming out, but once again, coming out of the bump, the car unweighted and came right back down and was solid again. I'm interested to see what happens with a harder damper setting.

Edit 1: Final Impression and pics

Track experience:

The car was amazing on track. It was very composed, even going sideways over a transition from the road course onto the banked part of the oval. The car handled turning transitions very well.

Grip driving:
Even on 205/55/16 all season Continental tires, I was able to do pretty well against a Mustang GT with springs, swaybars, shocks, some other under-the-car suspension bracing, Steeda brakes, and 295 series BF Goodrich KD's (I don't remember, they're the sticky dry tires). He was pulling away in braking and acceleration, but in the sweeping and hairpin turns, I was able to close just a bit because of being able to get on the power sooner. Overall, the car felt amazing. It handled the elevation changes, rumble strips, sweeping turns, hairpin turns, undulating braking zones ... everything was just wonderful, I couldn't ask for anything more.

Drifting:
Dialing in the dampers was a cakewalk to get the proper balance for drifting. I was able to do CRAZY angle on most of the turns by just powering over, no need for clutch kicking or Scandinavian flicks. Once in the slide, the car was very easy to control, even going on the roadcourse-to-banked-oval transition sideways. The exits out of the drifts were smooth for the most part (I'm still learning this car, so I was a bit nervous pulling out of the drift), but tires with less sidewall flex would be nice.

So yeah, I'm incredibly impressed with how well these coilovers work and how composed they are on the street and on the track in all kinds of conditions. They're nice and supple, but offer a remarkable amount of control and feedback.

Out of a rating of 10, I'd give them a 9.5 overall, just because it'd be nice if they came with a way to mount the ABS lines in the front. For handling, I give them a 9/10 because it'd be nice to have stiffer springs, but that's just my opinion. With stock sway bars, I think the handling and control would be a 10/10. For street handling, 10/10. They're more than capable for spirited driving, even on crappy roads. For street comfort, 9/10. It's not jittery at all on full soft and it's not harsh at all until you hit hard bumps or pot holes, but like I said before, they're firm but have a great feel and fluidity when the car is being driven on the street.




**Here's my initial impression, I've only had them on for a few hours.

Installation was super simple, setting the spring perches was a piece of cake, but the ride height was a little tricky. I wanted to go super low all around, but I decided on a fairly mild drop, about 2" in front and 1.5" in back.

Initial ride: I set the suspension on full soft and went for a ride. It's very smooth over the normal streets ... I'd say that it's just as smooth as the Tokico Illuminas and Eibach Prokit springs. The ride is very well damped for having such stiff springs in there. I'd say the ride is firm yet supple, meaning that the overall motions were very small (maybe about half or less of the height changes from the illumina/prokit), but there was a nice fluidity during and after the car went over the bumps. The only "harsh" moment was over a manhole cover that was about 2-3" below the level of the asphault ... but I'm going to guess that the stock suspension would be harsh in that situation as well.

Full hard felt really nice, but the harshness definitely went up. I could feel just about every bump and undulation and the "smooth" roads on soft were almost causing the car to feel like it was bouncing rather than staying on the road. I think the harder damper settings should only be used on smooth roads or the road course.

Initial handling: No official comment for now (still waiting to get the ride height figured out and to get the car aligned), but the car seems to have more grip (probably the negative camber) and poise around the turns, but at my next track outing (November 9), I'll be able to give a full report on how the car handles transitions, sweeping turns, and elevation changes, both sudden (rumble strips) and gradual (transitions from the road course onto the banked oval).

Edit: I wanted to give a list of the suspension and wheels/tires on my car.

2003 Sport Design with the 5 speed and LSD
no sway bars
Stance GR+ coilovers (duh =P )
16x7 Rota Slipstreams
205/55/16 Continental all seasons (not a great performance tire ... but they wear well and can handle some snow, kinda)

Last edited by db84drteg : 09-08-2009 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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^^^ nice review, i was split between these and the jic magic flt set. im leaning towards the stance gr+ set at the moment. keep us updated on the handling aspect. +rep
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Old 10-30-2008, 02:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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These are on my list of maybes. Thanks for the info so far, I'm excited to here any new updates.
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Update:

I still haven't gotten an alignment yet because I'm still fiddling with the ride height. At the ride height now, it still rubs just a touch on the driver front corner around hard turns.

So a handling update:

the suspension is starting to settle in a bit and I've pushed the car a little harder to see if it's stable. It is around the smoother roads, but the bumpy rutted stuff ... well that's where the fun starts!

With the suspension on full soft, it ate up the ruts and went right on around the turn.

There was one turn, though, where I wasn't trying to do anything stupid ... but with new suspension, very little experience with it, and a wacked out alignment, things happen. Well, I hit this "washboard" in the asphault just as I was shifting into 2nd at full throttle (trying to make the light ... don't ask) and the back end came out, but it was VERY controlled and I was able to hold the slide (even over the bumps and undulations) and went right on my way without a problem.

So in a nutshell, I'm still extremely impressed by this setup and how poised it is on just about any road condition on the street thus far. Just gotta get the height up a little more (or maybe take out the fender liners?), get an alignment, and then a track test next weekend!
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Old 10-31-2008, 02:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db84drteg View Post
Update:

I still haven't gotten an alignment yet because I'm still fiddling with the ride height. At the ride height now, it still rubs just a touch on the driver front corner around hard turns.

So a handling update:

the suspension is starting to settle in a bit and I've pushed the car a little harder to see if it's stable. It is around the smoother roads, but the bumpy rutted stuff ... well that's where the fun starts!

With the suspension on full soft, it ate up the ruts and went right on around the turn.

There was one turn, though, where I wasn't trying to do anything stupid ... but with new suspension, very little experience with it, and a wacked out alignment, things happen. Well, I hit this "washboard" in the asphault just as I was shifting into 2nd at full throttle (trying to make the light ... don't ask) and the back end came out, but it was VERY controlled and I was able to hold the slide (even over the bumps and undulations) and went right on my way without a problem.

So in a nutshell, I'm still extremely impressed by this setup and how poised it is on just about any road condition on the street thus far. Just gotta get the height up a little more (or maybe take out the fender liners?), get an alignment, and then a track test next weekend!
still sounds real impressive. im likin how you describe them right now....i guess ill wait for your update after you day at the track...pics of the car at the height your gonna set it at?
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Old 11-03-2008, 12:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraMan1784 View Post
still sounds real impressive. im likin how you describe them right now....i guess ill wait for your update after you day at the track...pics of the car at the height your gonna set it at?
May I use this writeup?

WE are the midwest/east coast distributor of Stance and would love to have everyone see this on our For sale post.

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Old 11-05-2008, 02:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Sure, you can use this writeup.

Another update:

So it's been 200 miles on them and they're settled already. I've also pulled the front fenders just a touch, maybe about 1/2" and it REALLY helped with the rubbing I'm having. It's just rubbing the fender liners, which I can handle. I might pull them a little more, but I like the stance the car has ... but I'm going to 225 tires all around (up from 205 currently), so if it rubs, the fenders will come out a little bit more.

Anyways, I've been getting a little more aggressive with it and the car is VERY stable in turns now, it's easy to go grip or drift with the setup, and the ride quality is still as well-damped and has the firmness and fluidity as the day I put them on!

I'm getting an alignment tomorrow morning (first open day they had) and then Saturday is the track day! I'm super excited to get aggressive with them.

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Old 11-06-2008, 10:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Got an alignment today and got the camber set at -1.8* all around with just a touch of toe in. The car is straight and true and now the back end is solid and planted (the rear toe was way out of wack). I also modified the fender liners and there's no more rubbing.

Just in case you guys are worried about the rubbing ... don't. I don't have swaybars, so that explains the increased roll that I'm seeing. I think that even with stock sway bars, you could go lower than I am and not rub due to the extra roll stiffness.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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that looks real nice...i love that drop. awesome review +rep. i think that solidified my decision to get these. thanks
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Old 11-09-2008, 02:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Track experience:

The car was amazing on track. It was very composed, even going sideways over a transition from the road course onto the banked part of the oval. The car handled turning transitions very well.

Grip driving:
Even on 205/55/16 all season Continental tires, I was able to do pretty well against a Mustang GT with springs, swaybars, shocks, some other under-the-car suspension bracing, Steeda brakes, and 295 series BF Goodrich KD's (I don't remember, they're the sticky dry tires). He was pulling away in braking and acceleration, but in the sweeping and hairpin turns, I was able to close just a bit. Overall, the car felt amazing. It handled the elevation changes, rumble strips, sweeping turns, hairpin turns, undulating braking zones ... everything was just wonderful, I couldn't ask for anything more.

Drifting:
Dialing in the dampers was a cakewalk to get the proper balance for drifting. I was able to do CRAZY angle on most of the turns by just powering over, no need for clutch kicking or Scandinavian flicks. Once in the slide, the car was very easy to control, even going on the roadcourse-to-banked-oval transition sideways. The exits out of the drifts were smooth for the most part (I'm still learning this car, so I was a bit nervous pulling out of the drift), but tires with less sidewall flex would be nice.

So yeah, I'm incredibly impressed with how well these coilovers work and how composed they are on the street and on the track in all kinds of conditions. They're nice and supple, but offer a remarkable amount of control and feedback.

Out of a rating of 10, I'd give them a 9.5 overall, just because it'd be nice if they came with a way to mount the ABS lines in the front. For handling, I give them a 9/10 because it'd be nice to have stiffer springs, but that's just my opinion. With stock sway bars, I think the handling and control would be a 10/10. For street handling, 10/10. They're more than capable for spirited driving, even on crappy roads. For street comfort, 9/10. It's not jittery at all on full soft and it's not harsh at all until you hit hard bumps or pot holes, but like I said before, they're firm but have a great feel and fluidity when the car is being driven on the street.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Just took a 500 mile road trip. The car was very smooth for the entire trip, but this is my full opinion.

Over the course of the trip, I had the dampers at 5/15 front and rear and swapped over onto my snow tires (225/50/16 Michelin X-ice @ 46psi). The car was very smooth on the road and when I got to the border of NM and CO, the downhill into CO was super fun, even in the wet =P The car felt very planted in the turns and over the undulations in the road. I never felt like the car was out of control.

The only thing I didn't like (well, I wasn't ready) were transitions from bridges back onto the road. On some, the transitions combined with the speed (95+ mph) and the higher spring rates and soft damping setting caused the car to become pretty unweighted, but the car regained composure as soon as it came back down.

There's also another transition from I25 to highway 36 from Denver to Boulder and with the old suspension, the car would blow through the suspension travel and scratch the bottom of the car on the road =\ With the Stances, the car didn't even come close to bottoming out, but once again, coming out of the bump, the car unweighted and came right back down and was solid again. I'm interested to see what happens with a harder damper setting.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Great reviews, keep em coming. Your reviews are my inspiration for picking the spring rates I picked (12kg/mm front and 9kg/m rear). Since you do not have sways and I have thicker ones I went with a little more offset between front and rear. This will be used with Koni shocks
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:31 AM   #13 (permalink)
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That should be a good setup! I'm guessing that the car will be geared more towards understeer, but I could be wrong as I don't know what size your sway bars are =P Regardless, the rear of the car will be able to be coaxed out, so it's all good =)

The Koni's are a great damper and I've used them extensively with my old street and race cars. I don't know how long they'll last with those spring rates, but luckily they can be rebuilt later even with shorter bodies if you want to lower the car more and retain full travel
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
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i just ordered a set! 1099shipped
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i just ordered a set! 1099shipped
Shipping today. Enjoy them!

Yes, Stance for the IS300 is about the best suspension available for the money... sure there are motons, but who has $1500 a corner to spend?
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