Slammed/ Aggressive Wheel Thread - Page 8 - my.IS - Lexus IS Forum
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:27 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe$ View Post
mis matched wheels + high offset + upainted body kit slammed = weak

that could be a sweet setup. but its not realy that slammed or aggressive
your crazy. i think thats about as slammed and agressive as you can get. just look at the bottom of the front bumper and the side skirts. that thing is slamed to hell.

and just because the wheels have a flat face, doesnt mean its a weak offset. the guy has spacers on, and look at the center hub for the wheels in the rear. it's pushed in creating more - offset.
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Old 10-21-2008, 03:20 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryw View Post
your crazy. i think thats about as slammed and agressive as you can get. just look at the bottom of the front bumper and the side skirts. that thing is slamed to hell.

and just because the wheels have a flat face, doesnt mean its a weak offset. the guy has spacers on, and look at the center hub for the wheels in the rear. it's pushed in creating more - offset.
the body kit makes it slammed. and the spacers push maybe but it isnt realy aggresive. but thats just my $0.02

this is aggressive
http://www.youtube.com/v/ziJbVdWTRww...&fs=1&border=1
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:11 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ill roller View Post
Yes, you must match or beat this stance:

That is SO hot!!
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:38 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Being dropped so low looks great but destroys the suspension travel and geometry of suspension and ultimately decreases performance.

I am going with the ghetto look with my IS, only not as low.
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:46 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver5spd View Post
Being dropped so low looks great but destroys the suspension travel and geometry of suspension and ultimately decreases performance.

I am going with the ghetto look with my IS, only not as low.


that's not true.
i still have 100% of my shock travel.. and my car dumped more than most of the cars on this forum. you only lose shock travel with cheap suspension.
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:33 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 4play View Post
that's not true.
i still have 100% of my shock travel.. and my car dumped more than most of the cars on this forum. you only lose shock travel with cheap suspension.
Maybe true, however you cannot argue that your geometry is not messed up. You have reduced the travel or the control arms far beyond the point of being effective.
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Old 10-21-2008, 01:23 PM   #112 (permalink)
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OMG! You guys are all totally going to notice that you've messed up your suspension geometry since you guys are always out on the track...

Oh wait, this is my.is, and there are maybe a total of 5 people who's cars see track time. Who cares if the car is going to handle a little worse, you're never going to know the difference on the street. My car isn't quite slammed, but I track it with no problems or regrets to my ride height. My car handles fine.
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Old 10-21-2008, 01:39 PM   #113 (permalink)
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I would be one of those 5 who tracks their car.
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:54 PM   #114 (permalink)
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so, when is the suspension geometry compromised? When the control arms are past the horizontal? when the control arms are almost to horizontal? When you can't align the car anymore?

I don't understand how the geometry could be compromised ... really. In my car (prokits on illuminas), the resting height is much higher than the cars here. However, when things start getting fun out on track, the tires get WELL into the wheel wells, let's say that they just touch the inside of the fender. Let's just say that this is how it's "supposed to be."

So, you lower the car, but your spring rates keep the car much more composed. On hard cornering, the wheels go to the same point relative to the car as with the softer springs. Of course, at rest height, we've "lost" some travel. But, the overall motion of the control arms is still within the overall motion defined by the softer springs with a higher ride height.

I'm just curious, please don't hold back with your descriptions and definitions or what's actually going on. I'm sure that the other 4 of us can understand what you mean.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:07 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Let me begin by saying in no way am I a suspension guru, but I am learning. I have read many posts from Sacrificial and other members.

Being that the is300 had limited camber adjustments when you go real low (not tokico/prokit) you are losing the contact patch on the tires, meaning when you take a turn less of your tire is in contact with the road, producing less traction. In ill riders case this lack of traction is beneficial because he drifts and what not.

The control arms should be horizontal to the ground or / \ like so the ground. Obviously when you go too low and cant align your car you are sacrificing tread wear, traction and control if you are far too negative.

I am not saying dont lower a car, mine is on tokico illuminas with B&G progressive springs, 24inches from the fender to the ground.

In the end its all subjective, I for one prefer not to slow down for bumps in the road, gingerly go over speed bumps and not hook my bumper or exhaust on parking stoppers. I used to be so low that atleast 2-3 times a week I would reverse into a spot and when I leave I would have to put the car in neutral, get out and lift the exhaust to clear the parking stopper and push the car forward then jump in. I actually got stuck on a speed bump in a neighborhood, my car was a seesaw and it took 2 people to sit on the trunk so I could back up. My car handles well both for daily driving and autocross, id like to be lower but my camber is dialed in almost perfect at -1.0x degrees all around.
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Last edited by silver5spd; 10-21-2008 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:14 PM   #116 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Sacrificial]My 2 cents?

Let's be sure to get our nomenclature straight, by lowering I mean just that: lowering the ride height. It doesn't necessarily mean coilovers, springs, or whatnot.

For the IS300, lowering may reduce your ride quality quite a bit. This is because just about all the Japanese-built springs/coilovers are actually calibrated for the lighter Altezza RS200/AS200. These RS200-calibrated rates are usually insufficent at keeping the front end of the IS300 from "soft crashing" on its bumpstops. (Some of you may volunteer that both ends feel worse, but the fact is that butt-dynoing which end of the suspension is causing the rough ride isn't as straighforward as one might imagine.) To reduce the suspension travel of the IS300 yet keep it off its bumpstops over common pavement irregularities, a much higher spring rate and/or higher rising rate is necessary. The only time the ride of a soft-sprung lowered car might feel acceptable is at-speed on a reasonably smooth road, where vehicle inertia is doing most of the body control. To deal with the "soft crashing" at low-to-medium speeds, one can turn up the damping adjustment (which is combined compression & rebound on most shocks and coilovers) to the point where the compression damping is overused in its body control capacity. While it is effective at reducing "soft-crashing" and endows the suspension with a feel of composure, it actually decreases grip and will send harsh vibrations right through the cabin over washboard-type surfaces. To be completely fair, turning up the compression damping past the optimal combination of body control and grip makes the breakaway characteristics much milder, hence why it's often regarded as a "drift tune". Not a lot of grip and hence not a lot of real speed, but extremely easy to manage breakaway and the body just about never misbehaves.

Even apart from the damping overuse issue, lowering will usually also reduce your actual handling performance through excessive camber. This is because 1) the suspension features a fairly aggressive camber curve, and 2) there isn't much range to the camber adjusters found on the car. Lowering the car to any significant degree (1" perhaps?) will dial in so much negative camber that the car won't be able to put down a full contact patch in a straight line nor in the midst of even hard cornering. Any of you who might disagree with this can prove this to yourself if you spend ~$120 to obtain a tire pyrometer and learn how to use it.

The excessive camber issue is worsened if the car is equipped with bigger sway bars. Body roll normally hurts performance on the stock car by putting the wheels into positive camber, but in this case the more positive camber to counter the lowered suspension's excessive negative camber the better. But the sways take that away too. Of course, this is all in addition to TLLTD effects.

Lowering will also do a real job on your tire wear. The excessive negative camber will eat up the inside shoulders of your tires, worsening with higher-performance (read: firmer sidewall and softer tread compound) tires. While this effect may not be as profound with long-lasting, lower-performance tires, check out one of the Falken Azenis Sport that was mounted on my rear axle:



(Don't worry too much on my behalf; this tire has 5 plys in the tread and 3 plies in the sidewall. As far as I could tell, I only ate completely through two plies before I chucked it. :wink: )

I think it's kinda funny how the tire is no longer a cylinder, but more of a truncated cone. For those of you who met me at the last car meet, note how mildly my car was lowered, if you even noticed that it was lowered at all. Since my installation of coilovers, my rear camber adjusters have always been maxed out to counter as much negative camber as possible. My static rear camber then was at around -1.1 degree. This undeniable evidence of a truly screwed-up contact patch prompted for the purchase of a tire pyrometer, which told me with surety of how much contact patch I was squandering. Being that I was already maxed-out at the end of the camber adjuster range, I started raising the car using the pyrometer to guage my progress in reclaiming my contact patches. By the time the pyrometer told me that my contact patches spanned across the entire tread width, the ride height was here:



Not very lowered, is it? But it now grips like a mofo to the point the car's dynamic capabilities are currently beyond my ability to fully exploit it. But I'm working on it. 8)

Many people believe that lowering the IS300 enhances handling. This isn't false from a seat-of-the-pants perspective, since lowering the car changes the perception of speed (the lower you sit to the ground, the faster the apparent speed) and reduces the time it takes for the car to "take a set" during corner entry. This owes to two phenomenons: 1) the fact that there's a whole lot less suspension travel to dive through before the shock stops diving because it's sitting on the bumpstop, or 2) due to miscambering, there isn't much contact patch to really laterally accelerate the vehicle much, so the "set" arrives at an artifically low point. All this gives the impression of a quick "set" when you steer into a corner, like that of stiff sway bars. It feels sporty and nimble, but you'll probably get lower skidpad numbers than even a stock car.

Another thing that leads people to believe that lowering enhance's the IS300's handling is the fact that the car seems understeer less. Remember my tire above? The reason the stock IS300 understeers as much as it does is because in maximal-performance cornering, the front wheels go into positive camber way before the rears if the car is aligned to factory specs. Good engineering places the "zero" (point equidistant from the ends of the range) of the camber adjusters at around the factory spec mark. Another way to understand what I'm saying is that the rear tires are simply negatively cambered more. Via lowering, adding a heckload of negative camber past the point of good performance on both ends produces front wheels that are excessively negative-cambered, but the rear wheels are even worse. (Remember that it was my rear tire that I showed you all for dramatic effect. My fronts weren't as bad.) The car seems more neutral because you're taking more contact patch away from the rear wheels.

I guess this is more than 2 cents. Take it for whatever it's worth.
/QUOTE]
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:46 PM   #117 (permalink)
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cant we just stop the arguing and keep posting pics of slammed IS! we all have our own taste and use our cars for different things. lets face it, we arent gonna change each others opinions or views. do you think ill is gonna raise his car? i doubt it. will i start running nonstaggered and raise my car? probably not. to each his own! i love the stance of my car and ill's car and everyone else that posted their pics. either like it or ya dont...no sense in arguing, this can go on forever.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:50 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by silver5spd View Post
Maybe true, however you cannot argue that your geometry is not messed up. You have reduced the travel or the control arms far beyond the point of being effective.
i totally agree that geometry is affected. but most people will not feel the difference. my car handles well for how low it is. i drive it hard but im not a pro race car driver than can feel any major change. the coilovers and swaybar, along with a good alignment give me better handling than i can ever ask for.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:55 PM   #119 (permalink)
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As I said above style is subjective. I love the stance of all the cars in this thread and my intention is not to change anyones opinion. I simply stated that I cant afford to be so low because I cant go through tires every 2-3k miles, and change my driving style to match a super low drop.

My point is depending on what you do with your car depends on you and stuff. Putting super stiff springs and coilovers with super stiff sway bars might feel better but in reality it might harm performance, you could put a 5inch exhaust on your car but it wont make you faster, you could put 20s on your car but it wont get you moar hoes.

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Old 10-21-2008, 06:39 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Less bullshit and talk more pics!!!
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