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Mr. Dale Davis,
-Are you trying to put up a challenge here about EXACTLY how the IS300 Engine works along with the schematics and how it integrates with the MAF (mass air flow, that is the correct terminology) meter?
-We have done extensive research and development in our design of the Air intake system and subcomputer that works flawlessly with the OBDII computers in the IS300.
-Our dyno sheets was done independently and if you want to put up the challenge we will reveal the company (very reputable company) and have testimonies from the employees and owner as to the results of the dyno runs.
-Why in the world would you even try to run the car without the MAF meter, IMO that is like playing with something you have no idea about, I am surprised you did not destroy the engine.
-The other thing that really make me sad to see and really troubles me is the misinformation and confusion you are trying to create here. Your statement of the IS300 using OBDIII tells me you have no idea of what you are talking about. All vehicles manufactured TODAY including all Lexus Vehicles are OBDII compliant and not OBDIII. OBDIII is still under development and it differs greately from OBDII. Here is a link to enlighten everyone on what is OBDII and the proposed OBDIII (read the whole article, you might learn a thing or two): http://members.aol.com/carpix256/library/us796obd.txt
-Also SRT is very big and concerned with emmissions and that is why we also make sure that emmissions are within the 50 states regulatory requirements.
Here is a word of advice please do not try to say anything about something you know nothing about! Sorry to sound so arrogant, but it really annoys me when people make assumptions without knowing anything about what they are making assumptions of.
Quote:
Originally posted by Shin-Kai Altezza TOM'S: I don't know if you all know that the IS motor is a "positive pressure motor" and has been designed with the factory airbox (made by GM) as a necessary part of the equation. It needs pressure to run at it's optimum efficiency. The AFM is an imbedded design (within the intake pipe from the airbox)unlike the previous Toyota AFMs. There were tests run w/o the AFM (was a complete dog, of course, but had to satisfy a question) and one with an open filter system. Both were terrible! The ECU taking feeds from the sensor ECU was getting crazy trying to set/control the fuel/air mix throughout the powerband. The 3 computers in the IS are OBDIII, and there's not a whole lot you can do to trick them.
Sorry to rain on the parade. Just be wary of anybody pushing these open filter elements as performance enhancers. They're "dehancers" for the time being. Don't worry, we're working on this with TOM'S.
Let's get the story straight- you're assuming I ran the test. I did not. I used info from another company, just like you did. No, it wasn't TOM'S. If you're like me, you would most likely pull data from another independent company to do a comparison, and if you had the tools/facilities (no I don't have a dyno), you would perform the same test(s) under the same environmental parameters (as much as possible)to keep from skewing the data. In order to verify and come to your own conclusion. So to answer your question- "Why in the world would you even try to run the car without the MAF meter, IMO that is like playing with something you have no idea about, I am surprised you did not destroy the engine." is moot. Yes, I will still verify (I came to the sight as a user, not a dealer)
I admit that I bungled by mentioning OBDIII, but I'm no idiot.
The fact of the matter is that the IS300 ECU contains 3 microprocessors that are from a new family of microprocessors, and I assume you know this. Companies that are bigger than you that do nothing but computers are still trying to study, understand and develop ECU upgrades in the truest sense (UPRD; and no, they weren't the ones who performed the test I mentioned; expect theirs to be back from TECHTOM'S in Tokyo this summer). TOM'S is also working on researching and developing a fix for the OEM IS300 one, as well. One possibility is to verify the TOM'S TECS ECU as a direct replacement (I will mention it when the results are posted). I think I've said enough on the IS300 ECU issue. I will stand firm on being wary (you better be as a consumer; stuff is not cheap) of claims for the time being.
Yes, I own Shin-Kai Racing, but I'm also a consumer. I don't tout about my size in the industry. Shame on you for trying to bully me.
My posting was not an intent to smear anybody or to promote Shin-Kai Racing as the all-round expert. You have already done a job on trying to discredit me. My slant was from the users side that you can't try to tune this car like you would a Honda/Acura by throwing some open filter element on.
Out of courtesy to readers and users, I have no intention to make this into a crap slinging contest. I apologize about mistakenly mentioning OBDIII (I hope the thing never comes out; yes, Choudry, I do know about ECUs; good article).
I'm not taking either sides, but Dale, what is the gist behind a "positive pressure motor" and why do you feel that current intakes, including SRT's, will degrade performance ?
Dale Davis,
A challenge is a challenge either accept or step down, and from the sounds of your second post you accept so with that said, here is my reply to your second post:
"Let's get the story straight- you're assuming I ran the test. I did not. I used info from another company, just like you did. No, it wasn't TOM'S. If you're like me, you would most likely pull data from another independent company to do a comparison, and if you had the tools/facilities (no I don't have a dyno), you would perform the same test(s) under the same environmental parameters (as much as possible)to keep from skewing the data. In order to verify and come to your own conclusion. So to answer your question- "Why in the world would you even try to run the car without the MAF meter, IMO that is like playing with something you have no idea about, I am surprised you did not destroy the engine." is moot. Yes, I will still verify (I came to the sight as a user, not a dealer)"
-No we are not like Shin Kai Racing. We are not consumers, we are manufacturers and supply to consumers like yourself. Our intake was designed in house, from ground up. We did not look at anyones schematics. We started research on these ECU's back in 1998 when the new generation of the ECU was released (the one with the three chips made by DENSO Intl.) We were successful in designing an ECU subcomputer to alter signals that go to and from the factory ECU to do recalibrations on fuel mappings without triggering any MIL codes (check engine lights) and keeping everything emissions legal. This sub computer was designed around the Lexus factory ECU and has been in production for over a year and a half. It is the same one used in our supercharged Lexus vehicles and the High Flow intakes used in the GS400's for about a year now. There are a multitude of testaments from owners/consumers that did before and after tests with their vehicles attesting to the performance improvements of our system vs. our competitors. And furthermore why do you make assumptions on what others say? Have you tried our intake? Since you have not, do not make a generalized assumption that there are none out there that work.
"I admit that I bungled by mentioning OBDIII, but I'm no idiot."
-I'll accept your retraction on the OBDIII comment about the IS300 ECU.
"The fact of the matter is that the IS300 ECU contains 3 microprocessors that are from a new family of microprocessors, and I assume you know this. Companies that are bigger than you that do nothing but computers are still trying to study, understand and develop ECU upgrades in the truest sense (UPRD; and no, they weren't the ones who performed the test I mentioned; expect theirs to be back from TECHTOM'S in Tokyo this summer). TOM'S is also working on researching and developing a fix for the OEM IS300 one, as well. One possibility is to verify the TOM'S TECS ECU as a direct replacement (I will mention it when the results are posted). I think I've said enough on the IS300 ECU issue. I will stand firm on being wary (you better be as a consumer; stuff is not cheap) of claims for the time being."
-Just because a company is bigger does not mean it is better, you as a business owner should know that of all people. I had heard of various companies claiming from a year and half ago that they would have a crack for the chipset, but no results, am I saying it is impossible, no. What the fact of the matter really is is that the factory chipset is not programmable, they are unique and also have a unique software to program it, they were developed by Denso Int'l for Toyota, even Toyota does not have the software and hardware to progam the chips, it is a very close guarded secret in Denso. This was done mainly because of the ease of reprogrammability of the previous generation chipset, and many people started to make their cars emissions illegal and Toyota got sued by the State of CA.
[i]"Yes, I own Shin-Kai Racing, but I'm also a consumer. I don't tout abou
Thanks for welcoming us. Without getting too winded, kudos to SRT. I always welcome healthy debate. I agree, the whole approach was a bit rough.
All that I want to establish out here is that with the factory set up, if the airbox is removed and an open filter element is installed with the air mass sensor(with nothing else done), performance will degrade from the original factory settings due to loss of "positive pressure" that once existed with the aid of the airbox. The OEM ECU will be dogged trying to establish optimum air/fuel ratio throughout the powerband. Over time, the engine check light will come on and there may be possible damage to the ECU and sensors. Gas mileage will more than likely be poor, as well. That's what seems to be happening to a lot of users of open filter elements.
Anybody claiming gains out of just an open air element w/o mods to compensate for what was taken out of the equation is blowing smoke. You must agree with me there. Any gains are probably "phantom horsepower". This is the "I know it's going to work" attitude when one subconsiously rolls on the gas a little too much after having put on an intake or exhaust. You and I see it all the time. It's comical and ridiculous.
Yes, I am going to promote Shin-Kai Racing anyways and always. I appreciate your perspective and candid replies.
OK Dale,
Now that we are on the same page, this leads us to take a closer look at our intake design. It is not just a plain pipe bolted on the throttle body with a big K&N filter in the front, some main differences are (from a previous post):
1) It is fully optimized and tuned for performance.
2) It is also tuned for sound and intake resonance performance.
3) Optimized for throttle responce (via sub computer)
4) Optimized for fuel economy (via sub computer)
5) Optimized for a flat torque curve and flat horsepower (via sub computer)
6) All parts are CNC machined for precise repeatable performance gains.
7) Subcomputer runs at 20Mhz and makes over 100 continuous recalibrations for air-fuel ratio per SECOND.
8) Subcomputer has a 20x25 air-fuel recalibration chart for the most precise calibration possible by any subcomputers available in the market.
9) Intake also optimized for emmissions (SRT is also friendly to the environment)
10) Extensive R&D and tuning (over 8 hours on the dyno) and weeks on real life testing (hundreds of miles) have gone into the product.
11) Custom designed AFE filter optimized for air flow with built in velocity stack, (adds an additional 2HP not mentioned in our website)
After this it should be very apparent why ours is so different from the rest, why it really performs and also a bit pricier.
So now the case is closed. ** Virtual gentlemans handshake, and wave to the IS300.net members ** [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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