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Looking for FIGS/PPE header owners

10K views 35 replies 6 participants last post by  PANIC!!! 
#1 · (Edited)
I would like to get in touch with other FIGS/PPE header owners who are using them or have been using them on their car. I want to exchange information/comments/possible improvements.

Is there anyone else on the forums using the FIGS/PPE Header on their IS300? Do you get P0133 - B1S1 circuit slow response?

That sensor wiring is extended, I want to know if everyone else has the same code. This would confirm if the problem is with my installation, not with the wiring extension or position of the sensor in the tube.

I checked the wiring multiple times, re-did it again this weekend. I still get the code. I also checked the b1s1 wiring from sensor connector to ECU, checked ok. I'm having problems with this since the beginning, in April.

I don't want to turn this thread into a HEADER discussion or O2 sensor discussion but more specific to this Header model. I would like to exhange info with people with the same header.

Thanks in advance
 
#3 ·
^^ Yeah of course, he helped out a lot. But after a while there is so much he can do at distance... With the info he has, he leans toward the wiring being a problem. But wasn't able to confirm me if other customers are dealing with this code too. So seeking for other customers here is kinda my next logical thing to do, I thought.

If other customers have this issue too, then ok, maybe we can figure it out collectively and share thoughts.
If not, then I'll go back to investigation ...
 
#4 ·
Can you post pics of the b1s1 location?
 
#6 ·
The issue is most likely that it's extended. Is your B1S1 soldered? These o2 sensors are so sensitive they don't like being "tampered" with. If you could relocate the primary o2 bung to where it does not require any extension I bet that would solve the problem.

I'm also on the assumption you're B2S1 isn't extended thus throwing zero codes, no?
 
#7 ·
B2S1 is pretty much at the same location on the Header, except on the other pipe. Doesn't throw a code, no. Only B1S1.



B2S1 is also extended but the extension is not as long. (approx. 2 ft total length for B2S1 versus approx. 3.5 ft total length for B1S1)
Not only it's not as long, but the extension is fully wired with connectors at each ends.
For the B1S1 extension, I had to cut/connect the wires with butt connectors. I tried soldering and was getting same readings, then I tried butt connectors and this is the current status.

I can see on the plots I monitor that it's true, the B1S1 sensor IS slower. It does switch at proper voltages on and off, but slower than B2S1.

For B1S1 to be slower than the rest, is it possible that the issue be in the EFI circuit to the sensor? or would that cause a different problem than a slow response. Like a simply non-working sensor for example.

Thing is, I don't automatically blame the extension for the problem, and it's the third time I redo it again. I had an EFI fuse blow in the past (about at the same time I installed the header), I wonder if it could have affected the circuit (partially), only for b1s1.

But, if I could get other owners to tell me if they have the same code or not, it would help me into fixing this.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Reason I'm asking about the EFI is because I had the EFI fuse blow at the beginning of the season. Replaced it, never blew again.
I swapped the EFI relay with the HORN relay, and I got the same "slower" readings for B1S1. So it's not the relay. But what about the wiring between EFI and the Sensor. That, I didn't check yet. Oh wait..a problem with the EFI give a Heater related code instead if I understand the diagram?



Well.. this is turning into a o2 sensor issue thread. I think as long as I cannot confirm with another owner of the same header that doesn't have the code, I think the thread title is still good. I'll update it if it has nothing to do with the header tho. And by the way, they are a very nice piece and I'm happy to have them, even if I have this issue right now.
 
#10 ·
Oh wait..a problem with the EFI give a Heater related code instead if I understand the diagram?
Well, I would agree that a problem with the EFI circuitry (the relay only, I suppose) should manifest in an O₂ heater circuit related code. A malfunctioning heater could cause an O₂ circuit code as well, though.

It's odd that the fuse blew; if you didn't change anything but the fuse and it didn't blow, I wouldn't be surprised if there was something wrong still. Maybe even the O₂ sensor/extension wiring or such.
 
#9 ·
Why did you have to use an extension? Does the wires not reach to the bung on the header? I didnt have to extend anything when i added my aftermarket header.

I would like to see pics if you get time. Or do you have a build thread i can check out?
 
#12 ·
I dont believe those are b1s1 / b2s1. Those look like b1s2 / b2s2 and its on the ypipe. Does the upper part of the header have o2 sensors? If you have o2 sensors towards the top, then you can get an o2 sim and the CEL will go away. Also, since one sensor is reading correctly, you can also splice b1s2 to b2s2 and the CEL will also go away.

The extension is causing the CEL, because like you mentioned, the signal is slower. The b1s2 should be on the header. Not where its at now. I can see why you had to add an extension. Hope this helps figuring out the bank and sensor locations.

Header...click me
Ypipe...click me
 
#15 ·
Yes, they are. Its the way it's designed.

As for the secondary sensors:
- You can kinda see B2S2 right after B2S1 in the pic.
- B1S2 is in the front, right about where B1S1 is on the stock setup : P.

Since there is no cats, it's not important if secondary is before or after the primary. It just needs to be in a proper fume stream.

I'm not questioning the position of the sensors, I'm sure it's perfect that way and was well thought by the designer.
 
#16 · (Edited)
- B1S2 is in the front, right about where B1S1 is on the stock setup : P.
Can you point to this in a photo? I think this is causing your issue, but I could be wrong.

I'm thinking you have B1S2 installed in non-extended bung header pre-merge, and thus it's reading full-bore exhaust, ahead of the B1S1 sensor (which is post-merge). I think that full-bore reading (it's not "conditioned to read a factor lower than the primary," to quote Fig) is causing the ECM/CEL trouble.

I think we're confusing wiring extensions with bung extensions. Wiring extensions should have no effect on the reading. Using a bung extender will lower the actual read value (and perhaps delay it's response too).
 
#22 ·
Im so confused on the o2 sensor locations. Im still stuck on bung locations, rather than trying to fix your problem :lol:
 
#24 ·
Yeah, it is definitely confusing, but I think it's just a matter of communication and previous conceptions.

First, let's clear the confusion. PANIC!!!, correct me if this is wrong but:


  1. There are a total of four sensor bungs locations with the header, and it came with two bung extensions intended for use with applications using engine control that expects a catalyzed exhaust setup (likely read: you're using the stock ECU).
  2. One bung is installed close to the exhaust ports on the cylinder head on cylinder one. I assume this is mainly intended for wide band applications, but can also serve to re-create a "downstream"-like reading via a bung extension.
  3. Two bungs are installed close to the merge point on both banks. These are intended as the primary sensor locations, as these two locations are equidistant from the ports and sense all of the bank's cylinders (giving a more representative, accurate reading).
  4. One bung is installed a bit further down from the primary location on the second bank. I assume this is intended to re-create a "downstream"-like reading via a bung extension.

I assume the location of the 4th bung (item 3) was chosen due to space constraints. Possibly the same goes for the 1st bung location (item 1).

Assuming all of the above is true (I'm pretty confident it is correct), it sounds like PANIC!!! has the right sensors in the right locations. Assuming your wiring extensions are not causing issues, I would turn to the sensors themselves. What's their status; are they new; how many miles?

-- edit --

oomaxse beat me to it. oomaxse; there's just one bung after the primary sensing location on the PPE headers, not two, correct? A total of four bungs, not five, correct?

PANIC!!! I have an oxygen sensor without a plug on the end; the heater element is bad but I believe the oxygen element still functions. It's pretty beat up IIRC, but I can share it with you if you like. Otherwise, a new OEM sensor without the pigtail/plug is actually rather cheap; ~$40 USD.

PANIC!!! Have you tried swapping sensors/banks, to see if it moves with the sensor?
 
#23 ·
Yeoooooo. I'll try to clarify even though these aren't my set of header. The PRIMARY sensors are right after the merge at each bank (two banks; as you can see). The secondary isn't really seen in the photo unless you are looking for them. When you see it you'll know they're after the primaries.

So the primaries are after each merge. That should be sufficient for close to OE location (merge VS one runner). As for the secondary... they can be plugged in anywhere as long as it's within stream. Otherwise you'd have to simulate the voltage/ohm, etc,...

But that's besides the point. I truly believe it's the extended o2 sensor that's causing the issue. Unfortunately, it's pricey to find out if thats the issue at hand.
 
#27 ·
First, the pics you posted are from the earlier prototype(s). The final design is a little bit different but still, the bung locations are about the same.

The bung extension I got are 90 degrees macaronis, but straight extensions would probably work just as fine. Maybe the 90 degree version makes a little more room for tight fits.

For the Header vs Y-Pipe confusion, I've been calling the whole thing my header. We can also call the bottom part a Y-Pipe. Bottom line, we're talking about the same thing : P. Three sensors are plugged there; B1S1, B2S1 and B2S2. B1S2 is on the front, on the first Runner of bank 1. That's the way it's designed and it's suppose to work. This allows us to reuse B1S2 and B2S2 without extending the wiring. BUT, B1S1 and B2S1, both "primary" sensors need to be extended (wire extension) to go sniff in their respective holes lol, under the car, where the tubing merges and stink the most (eewww).

I was also not sure at the beginning when they revealed the design but after a while I understood and it makes total sense. It seems mixed up cause it's not in the same order as we are used to but it works.

I read once FIGS said something like this, which makes sense and explains the positioning: there is no Primary vs Secondary sensors in a Catless system.
 
#28 ·
Oh, Ok, thats why i was confused. Now im not :lol: It all makes sense why you had to add extensions.

Hopefully someone chimes in to help you with this problem. Sorry for dragging this out longer than it should have been.
 
#29 ·
PPE is a vendor on clublexus, if you didnt know.
 
#31 ·
So the new sensor and wiring harness didn't fix the issues I'm having. Figs also got their header installed on their latest is300 lately and they don't have the issue I'm having with P0133. So... im f'ked.
I'm pretty sure I have some bad leaks where the first part of the header connects with the second part of the header ("y-pipe"). Next thing I will have to do is undo everything and reinstall and find a way to avoid any leaks there. That connection is right beside where most O2 sensors are (3 out of 4). If this doesnt fix my problem, I might just give up and remove it. So getting headers was my worst move for my car this year, created nothing but problems for me so far. Car runs like shit, doesn't sound like I wanted to and I have CELs that I wasn't able to fix. Another lesson learned I guess. Car is soon going to sleep mode for the winter.
 
#32 ·
I'm having with P0133.

I'd say looking at the trouble-shooting procedure for this CEL that you probably have an exhaust leak at the head. There are a number of things that can cause it but most are common to both banks. The exhaust leak part though can be specific to a bank. You could run the engine, look at the 02 sensor voltages for both banks. The CEL is saying that the cross counts (conversion from rich to lean reading) for bank 1 is slow. I'd want to use a scanner to see the voltages.
 
#33 ·
Thanks yeah, I did try to troubleshoot it. I can see the voltages, and they seem fine. The problem is the frequency on the B1S1, it does switch a little bit slower than b2s1. I can see it on the graphics.

The sensor is new, the wiring too.
The Headers have all brand new oem gaskets and was recently reinstalled at the Lexus dealer cause they had to remove it to replace a rear main seal on the engine. They installed a new gasket at the head (they said the previous one 'looked' like it was leaking). So I thought this would eliminate that spot for a leak. This is supposing they installed in properly and torque properly. But, I think they screwed up the other connection (where it meets the 'y-pipe' part), I can see they just bolt it together and tight it the hardest they could cause it's a bit crooked and I think I have a leak there. Not impressed with the way they worked there but whatever. So now I thought I would re-do it myself, reinstalling everything connections carefully. I gotta say, this is hard for me cause I have no place to work, no air tools etc. I need to go in like a parking lot to jack the car and check it out.

You know, I like to and usually am quite successful with troubleshooting issues and searching for solutions, but the problem with P0133 is it sends you it every direction. From exhaust leak to intake leak to Ignition. I admit, I'm having a lot of trouble to diagnose this one. I'm fighting with O2 sensor codes since I installed the header in the begginning of the season (April). Since then I replaced all sensors (some more than once), we-did some wiring multiple times, checked for exhaust leaks (maybe I didn't check correctly), installed a o2 signal conditionner (from PPE), installed a new wiring extension for b1s1 (made by PPE). Lexus Dealer reinstalled my headers while doing other stuff. The signal frequency I read on my graphics is still a little bit slower than b2s1.

I appreciate your help though, really.
 
#34 ·
You know, I like to and usually am quite successful with troubleshooting issues and searching for solutions, but the problem with P0133 is it sends you it every direction. From exhaust leak to intake leak to Ignition. I admit, I'm having a lot of trouble to diagnose this one. I'm fighting with O2 sensor codes since I installed the header in the begginning of the season (April). Since then I replaced all sensors (some more than once), we-did some wiring multiple times, checked for exhaust leaks (maybe I didn't check correctly), installed a o2 signal conditionner (from PPE), installed a new wiring extension for b1s1 (made by PPE). Lexus Dealer reinstalled my headers while doing other stuff. The signal frequency I read on my graphics is still a little bit slower than b2s1.
I'd have stuck the stock headers back on and seen if the problem was still there before I did all that. If the stock headers have the same problem. You know it's not related to the headers. If the problem goes away, I'd inspect the header more carefully. Like maybe it wasn't 100% welded around the flange or something. It's possible the flange has been bent by people not using a torque wrench too.
 
#35 ·
Another option related to the bent flange. When you take it off, spray some black paint on the flat part of the flange. Use a sander with a very light sand paper and go across it to see if you have low spots. This will help you determine if the flange is sitting flat against the block.

I hate when things that are supposed to work and it doesnt, then getting annoyed by it. I have been annoyed by LEDs. They were Diode and Vleds and they keep burning out pre-maturely and tired of having to keep replacing the LEDs, even though they are under warranty. I never had this kind of issue with standard bulbs.
 
#36 ·
Just for a conclusion, I removed the header and re-installed the original exhaust manifold and y-pipe. Everything is back to normal (long term fuel trims at solid 0%, no more O2 sensor codes, etc.). The wiring extension for B1S1 was causing my issues and/or exhaust leaks (maybe both). Although FIGS don't have this issue with theirs on their race car.

Now I decided to sell the header and stay stock. Thanks all for the help.
 
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