Stick Shift Faster Than Automatic?? - my.IS - Lexus IS Forum
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Old 10-03-2000, 09:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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In road tests of Manual transmission cars like the BMW 330i, you see 0-60 times of 6.2-6.4 seconds.... However... these times are achieved with a professional driver that nails the shift points, and modulates the clutch perfectly. Also those times are the best of many trial runs. So in actuality if an someone in an IS300 were to race an average driver in a stick shift BMW 330i the outcome could be a lot closer than you think...
Eric....
improper shifting can cost you several 10ths of a second
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Old 10-03-2000, 10:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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[This message has been edited by kota (edited October 19, 2000).]
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Old 10-03-2000, 11:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You are right about Stick shift. The way they produce those acceleration times usually means they drop clutch at high rpm. For exapmle, when they tested the R33 GTR in Car and Driver Magazine, they drop the clutch at a whopping 7000RPM. I know they said the car didn't complain or show sign of problem, but I really don't see you do those type of launching all the time.
Also, Motortrend did a test with the TT Roadster regarding this issue. They first test the car launching at around 4000 rpm, and the car acceleration to 60mph in less than 7 seconds. Then they launch the car using the normal way that we will usually do it on the street, and they got something like 8.5sec to 60mph (can't remember the exact number). This means that even though stick seem faster on paper, they often are not on the street and a decent automatic driver can usually beat his/her stick counter part just because the other driver doesn't know how to launch his/her car.
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Old 10-03-2000, 12:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Call me crazy but I still believe if I am given a stick I can take out an automatic WITHOUT dumping the clutch. Now, there certainly are exceptions to extraordinary transmissions like Mercedes has done in the past. In fact, I believe Porsche's 0-60 difference between auto and manual is only ~0.3 seconds. When you're doing sixty in less than 4.5 then, okay, maybe the auto.
But if we're talking stick or auto Mustang GT or BMW, come on, give me the stick. I think most people on this board can drive a faster stick than slushbox.
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Old 10-03-2000, 12:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well Brad I think a lot of us on this board (especially us with above average # of posts) are probably above average drivers too. Yeah I think I could beat an Automatic BMW 330i if I was given the Manual. However I do have many friend with manual transmission cars that never use it to their potential because they don't know how to and probably end up being slower than the Automatic version of their car.....
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Old 10-03-2000, 12:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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[This message has been edited by kota (edited October 19, 2000).]
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Old 10-03-2000, 12:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The stick shift version of a car should be faster than it's automatic counterpart even for an above-average driver. Launching properly is the most difficult thing to do in a manual, which affects 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs. However, let's take a simpler scenario: from a rolling start or on the highway, if both the manual and automatic start from the same gear (at 30 mph and say 2nd gear), floor it, and shift at redline (and the manual driver shifts properly to the next gear in a short time) [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img], the manual will "walk" away from the automatic. I think any "decent" stick shift driver should be able to do this.
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Old 10-03-2000, 12:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Touchez!

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Originally posted by kota:
I think the low message count shows great restraint on my part for not making useless chatter [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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Old 10-03-2000, 12:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Cal:
The stick shift version of a car should be faster than it's automatic counterpart even for an above-average driver. Launching properly is the most difficult thing to do in a manual, which affects 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs. However, let's take a simpler scenario: from a rolling start or on the highway, if both the manual and automatic start from the same gear (at 30 mph and say 2nd gear), floor it, and shift at redline (and the manual driver shifts properly to the next gear in a short time) [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img], the manual will "walk" away from the automatic. I think any "decent" stick shift driver should be able to do this.
Yes and I understand that part, but I was referring to accelerating from a stand still (0-60 tim)...
Eric....

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Old 10-03-2000, 01:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The problem is that the acceleration number for stick are usually from the test when you dump clutch, so you rarely know how fast the car really is when you start from idle. No matter how good your clutch is, there is no way it will survive the "dumping clutch" technique for long. I still think stick is faster than automatic, but it is mainly because of the fact that they are more efficient to transfer power, and I doubt in real life driving style that they are really that much quicker than automatic.
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally posted by kota:
I think the low message count shows great restraint on my part for not making useless chatter [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Are you saying that us highly involved and interested make usless chatter?
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm driving a Solara SE V6 manual now, it can move if I need it to, but I have really have nothing to compare it to. My last car was a '87 Camry 4 cylinder.

The question I have is for those that have owned a sporty car that was a manual and now own an IS300, how does the IS300 automatic stack up? Using and not using the e-shift?

I was going to wait for the manual IS300, but my concern is the price will jump with the new Nav system (standard?), and steering assist package (I think this is standard). Also I assume Lexus will up the HP to match or come close to the BMW 330.

I'm buying the car to keep for 5+ years.

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Old 10-03-2000, 02:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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coming from an Eclipse Turbo, I can tell you that I am very surprised by the IS300's performance. Not necessary the straight line acceleration, but the cornering ability. I can tell you, however, that Eclipse is one of the most difficult car to launch correctly, and it doesn't allow you to dump the clutch at all even at 5000 rpm.
I am pleased with the overall performance package of IS, and if you know how to use your e-shift properly and hit the powerband whenever you need it, then the performance of IS should not be that much different than your Solara
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Old 10-03-2000, 02:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks Daniel.

That helps a lot. I would rather drive the twisties than drag the car. I go out of my way to avoid highways and take the back roads when I can.

I might add I only consider myself "ok" with a manual and I've driven one for 7 out of the last 8 years.

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Old 10-03-2000, 03:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Farch:
I'm driving a Solara SE V6 manual now, it can move if I need it to, but I have really have nothing to compare it to. My last car was a '87 Camry 4 cylinder.

The question I have is for those that have owned a sporty car that was a manual and now own an IS300, how does the IS300 automatic stack up? Using and not using the e-shift?

I was going to wait for the manual IS300, but my concern is the price will jump with the new Nav system (standard?), and steering assist package (I think this is standard). Also I assume Lexus will up the HP to match or come close to the BMW 330.

I'm buying the car to keep for 5+ years.

Farch
I owned a 1992 240SX w/5 speed manual prior to the IS. I owned the car for over 8 years and miss it greatly, but do love my IS. I do miss shifting the gears. There is nothing like it when driving for sport. I have not realy worked the e-shift that much yet, but so far I have been a little disapointed in it. Slow to shift, up-shifts/down-shifts on its own sometimes...and hard to get used to from someone who has drivin a stick shift for 18 years. HOWEVER, in trafic and for just going around town (which is 90%+ of my driving, I do not miss going through the gears. For real sport driving, I think you have to have the gears. For an everyday driver, in an area with crazy trafic, I like the trade off right now with the e-shift.

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