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post #31 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-09-2011, 06:55 PM
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im working on a turbo kit now. but the price will still be around 5500 to 6k to make it a safe kit.
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post #32 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-09-2011, 07:45 PM
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im working on a turbo kit now. but the price will still be around 5500 to 6k to make it a safe kit.
And best of luck to you.

Just please understand that in the past several years the following has happened at least 4 or 5 times:

Some guy (usually with almost 0 posts ever) posts "I'm gonna turbo the 2IS! It'll be safe, and affordable, and awesome"

Some folks provide technical reasons this is quite difficult.

He insists "Just you wait!"

Then in every case but one, nobody ever hears from the dude again and he produces nothing. The guy who started this very thread for example, who never turboed his 250 after starting this thread about it.

The one exception is a guy who later claimed he did it, then when asked for evidence the dithered for a while making excuses... and then then claimed he blew the motor and never posted about it again.


If you do it, awesome. Lots of folks would love to see it.

But we have, literally, "heard this one before" and have never had anyone do it successfully.

(Further, at that price, you're unlikely to be able to safely run much more than 5-7 psi...which won't add enough power to justify the cost... for all those technical reasons previously mentioned).
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post #33 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-10-2011, 01:56 AM
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so if i build a kit. provide dyno time showing no knock without going in the motor at all will you buy one from me? granted i haven't started on the kit at all due to raising awareness that it is possible with meth injection. the meth mixed with 93oct will yield the knock protection of around 98-99oct fuel, allowing now only being able to run 7 lbs reliably but i believe i can run 8 or 9 lbs even with 12:1. im shooting for around 375-400whp. there will be lag in the turbo. there will be full exhaust. the ignition timing wont be touched but i will add fuel. basic kit will be around 5500 to 6k, full kit will be around 8k but will have a cat back exhaust deleting the secondary cats.
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post #34 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-10-2011, 12:35 PM
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so if i build a kit. provide dyno time showing no knock without going in the motor at all will you buy one from me? granted i haven't started on the kit at all due to raising awareness that it is possible with meth injection. the meth mixed with 93oct will yield the knock protection of around 98-99oct fuel, allowing now only being able to run 7 lbs reliably but i believe i can run 8 or 9 lbs even with 12:1. im shooting for around 375-400whp. there will be lag in the turbo. there will be full exhaust. the ignition timing wont be touched but i will add fuel. basic kit will be around 5500 to 6k, full kit will be around 8k but will have a cat back exhaust deleting the secondary cats.

Well, LMS sold a supercharger kit, which obviously is a LOT simpler than the kit you describe as it requires installing a ton less stuff, and no messing with meth injection... it sold for about $6000 and added about 50 hp.

They sold like 3 of em... ever.

Personally I wouldn't spend 8k on the kit you describe for a few reasons:

1) I need to pass a visual emissions inspection, so can't delete any cats.

2) For $8000 to get 375 hp I'd just spend 10k to trade my used 350 for a used IS-F.... and get similar power with a warranty, no complexity from running a meth system, and a vastly better transmission.


That doesn't mean you won't get anybody to buy one... but it's part of the problem with making the 2IS faster... making a 250 faster makes no sense if it costs more than 4k since you can get a 350 instead... making a 350 faster only makes sense if it's >100 hp for 5-8k.... otherwise you'd just get an F.

The problem is it's impossible to run enough boost to add >100 hp with 12:1 compression (and no ECU control doesn't help either, but mainly the compression).

If the IS-F didn't exist you'd do a bit better with an 8-9 psi kit around 8k... but I think LMS showed there's not many folks willing to spend $1000 per psi on boost.

I'm sure at least a few of the folks who've come through over the years intended to build a turbo kit ran into the same issue... they realized it's impossible to make enough power to be worth the relatively high cost on this motor and still turn a profit justifying development of said kit.
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post #35 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-10-2011, 01:15 PM
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Well, LMS sold a supercharger kit, which obviously is a LOT simpler than the kit you describe as it requires installing a ton less stuff, and no messing with meth injection... it sold for about $6000 and added about 50 hp.

They sold like 3 of em... ever.

Personally I wouldn't spend 8k on the kit you describe for a few reasons:

1) I need to pass a visual emissions inspection, so can't delete any cats.

2) For $8000 to get 375 hp I'd just spend 10k to trade my used 350 for a used IS-F.... and get similar power with a warranty, no complexity from running a meth system, and a vastly better transmission.


That doesn't mean you won't get anybody to buy one... but it's part of the problem with making the 2IS faster... making a 250 faster makes no sense if it costs more than 4k since you can get a 350 instead... making a 350 faster only makes sense if it's >100 hp for 5-8k.... otherwise you'd just get an F.

The problem is it's impossible to run enough boost to add >100 hp with 12:1 compression (and no ECU control doesn't help either, but mainly the compression).

If the IS-F didn't exist you'd do a bit better with an 8-9 psi kit around 8k... but I think LMS showed there's not many folks willing to spend $1000 per psi on boost.

I'm sure at least a few of the folks who've come through over the years intended to build a turbo kit ran into the same issue... they realized it's impossible to make enough power to be worth the relatively high cost on this motor and still turn a profit justifying development of said kit.
the 375 mark I'm going for is for a 250 not a 350. you would yield more power from your bigger engine then a isf will have stock if that's the route you wanna take. the reason i didn't bother with the 350 was because of that reason. 375 whp is almost 100 hp more then a 350. so for a couple of grand more then going through the trouble of selling and buying another car, just boost it. what if i told you i have lower compression pistons? and there's already shelf pistons for your car at 10.5:1.... didn't know that did ya?
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post #36 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-10-2011, 07:47 PM
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the 375 mark I'm going for is for a 250 not a 350. you would yield more power from your bigger engine then a isf will have stock if that's the route you wanna take. the reason i didn't bother with the 350 was because of that reason. 375 whp is almost 100 hp more then a 350. so for a couple of grand more then going through the trouble of selling and buying another car, just boost it. what if i told you i have lower compression pistons? and there's already shelf pistons for your car at 10.5:1.... didn't know that did ya?
Yeah, you're not gonna make 375 rwhp on 8-9 psi of boost on an IS250...

That's more than double the stock power. Not happening on 8-9 psi.

Bear in mind the larger displacement IS350 only gains about 50 hp from 5psi. And you're expecting to gain almost 4 times that from less than 2 times the boost on a smaller motor? I realize a turbo setup will be a bit more efficient than a supercharger one.. but nowhere near that much more.


As to lower compression pistons, I haven't actually seen anyone selling them for the ISx50- can you point out the source for us?

Price is going into the 5 figures at that point I imagine for forged low-compression internals plus the rest (and you'll need some engine management at this point too- also something nobody has shown working for the 2IS in the US ever)... not to mention the labor involved if folks aren't used to changing pistons and such themselves. To be honest I'd really expect anyone willing to put well over 10k into motor mods to not have bought a 250 to start with.


Again, I'd love to see it working, but as I mention many have made such claims before and nobody has produced anything actually working and independently tested... (several made claims they never managed to back up though- Fox marketing with the SC kit, Kenny from turbochargers.com with his IS turbo kit, etc...). Nearly 6 years on from initial production the only kit ever sold in the US was the LMS one that made the aforementioned ~50 hp on 5 psi for $6000.

Now, if you actually CAN get a 250 reliably putting down IS-F level power for 6-8k...awesome. You'd sell a ton of kits. I just don't see that happening.
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post #37 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-10-2011, 09:39 PM
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Yeah, you're not gonna make 375 rwhp on 8-9 psi of boost on an IS250...

That's more than double the stock power. Not happening on 8-9 psi.

Bear in mind the larger displacement IS350 only gains about 50 hp from 5psi. And you're expecting to gain almost 4 times that from less than 2 times the boost on a smaller motor? I realize a turbo setup will be a bit more efficient than a supercharger one.. but nowhere near that much more.


As to lower compression pistons, I haven't actually seen anyone selling them for the ISx50- can you point out the source for us?

Price is going into the 5 figures at that point I imagine for forged low-compression internals plus the rest (and you'll need some engine management at this point too- also something nobody has shown working for the 2IS in the US ever)... not to mention the labor involved if folks aren't used to changing pistons and such themselves. To be honest I'd really expect anyone willing to put well over 10k into motor mods to not have bought a 250 to start with.


Again, I'd love to see it working, but as I mention many have made such claims before and nobody has produced anything actually working and independently tested... (several made claims they never managed to back up though- Fox marketing with the SC kit, Kenny from turbochargers.com with his IS turbo kit, etc...). Nearly 6 years on from initial production the only kit ever sold in the US was the LMS one that made the aforementioned ~50 hp on 5 psi for $6000.

Now, if you actually CAN get a 250 reliably putting down IS-F level power for 6-8k...awesome. You'd sell a ton of kits. I just don't see that happening.
i can get some cams cut for around 2k. there's already a company making that much power on the 250 with a supercharger. i realize that there's been people in and out of your lives filling your heads with empty promises. i have the knowledge to make your dreams come true. as far as the pistons go there 10.5:1. not too much lower but the stock block is only good for about 14psi anyways.


280kw = 375.5hp

375.5hp vs 306hp

that's a huge hop up of 70hp over the is350 stock for about the same price as buying one any modding with bolt-os. ill be offering a kit within the next few months

as far as the pistons go I'm not sure if I'm ready to release that info at this time but ill give you a hint for shits n giggles... 2010 fj cruiser has the same bore as the is350 and is a 1gr-fSe

so you should be able to use the rotating assembly in the 1gr-fse to yield a 4.0 is400 ill be offering a kit for this as well.

Last edited by lazerous; 04-11-2011 at 01:46 AM.
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post #38 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-11-2011, 04:31 AM
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post #40 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-11-2011, 04:38 AM
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post #41 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-11-2011, 04:41 AM
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post #42 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-11-2011, 04:41 AM
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post #43 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-11-2011, 04:44 AM
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post #44 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-11-2011, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lazerous View Post
i can get some cams cut for around 2k. there's already a company making that much power on the 250 with a supercharger. i realize that there's been people in and out of your lives filling your heads with empty promises. i have the knowledge to make your dreams come true. as far as the pistons go there 10.5:1. not too much lower but the stock block is only good for about 14psi anyways.

YouTube - RGMotorsport's Supercharged Lexus IS250

280kw = 375.5hp

375.5hp vs 306hp
Yes, but nobody believes them.

There's been a couple threads on that company here and on CL, and several folks have pointed out the math on their website doesn't make any sense.

(their "after" 1/4 mile times are similar to a stock IS250 for example... and while they're running at altitude it shouldn't make near as much a difference for that much boosted power as their track #s show)

Further, they claim to make that with some sorta engine management they haven't really explained and nobody else has ever duplicated.

Oddly their website seems to have removed the 1/4 mile times they used to have posted.

But their numbers are still off.

For one, they're claiming 240 AT THE ENGINE, not the wheels.

But they still post only 163 kw at the wheels... yet somehow 240kw at the engine.

Which is a massively larger drivetrain loss than the 250 actually has. That's like nearly 3 times the actual drivetrain loss.

163kw is 220 hp BTW, a lot less than a 350 makes.

And they claim they only made 140 at the wheels stock, which is ALSO much lower than anyone else on earth.

In other words- they're lying about the stock HP their car made, and about the "engine" hp their kit makes.

220 at the wheels, which is what their dyno shows with their kit, is only about a 40-50 hp gain from a "real" stock 250. Which is in line with what other kits have produced. THAT I can believe.

But it makes your goal of 375 hp at the wheels pretty clearly unrealistic.

Oh, and they only manage the 220 at the wheels with a liquid intercooler and their claimed piggyback ECU too.


The fact you didn't notice the problems with their numbers leaves me a bit concerned about how much research you've done on this though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerous View Post
as far as the pistons go I'm not sure if I'm ready to release that info at this time but ill give you a hint for shits n giggles... 2010 fj cruiser has the same bore as the is350 and is a 1gr-fSe

so you should be able to use the rotating assembly in the 1gr-fse to yield a 4.0 is400 ill be offering a kit for this as well.
There again- what's going to run the motor? The Lexus ECU can't be reprogramed, and you can't use the ECU from a different car and get the rest of the OEM systems to work.


Do you have a good source showing an fSe motor in there though?

Wiki is showing it uses a 1GR-FE, but with VVti added for 2010.

Toyota announces pricing for 2010 models, upgraded engine for FJ Cruiser — Autoblog

Also mentions dual vvti and upgraded rocker arms but no D4S system addition.

Good catch if that's the case though (and you have a solution for fuel/engine management)
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post #45 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-11-2011, 08:09 AM
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yup. do 10.4:1 keeping the spark the same and adjusting the fuel will take care of your knocking issues. leaving the limitations to the oem fuel system and the block as long as meth injection is used. im working on engine management now. hopefully ill know something this week. once timing is figured out ill have the 2.5 close to the 375 range. i am working with alot of limiting factors, but i have some big names to back me up so im not worried about failing. even if i have to stroke it to a 3.1

i will get a set of these 9:1 pistons and show you that this is all possible.
modding these cars will be alot easier then you think.
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