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Old 10-14-2009, 07:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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thx. Also, don't want to hijack the thread but do you guys use any kind of heel and toe technic for rev matching or the gaz pedal is a little too deep to do so? I will try double clutch. In most cases, I don't have time to revmatch (by giving gaz while holding clutch) more than one gear down. I think I need rev match lessons.

Last edited by PANIC!!!; 10-14-2009 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I found this article here: AltezzaGarage.com IS300(JCE-10) Parts reviews, Installs, Articles, Car Life, and Information!

kinda useful, although it doesn't give any example. Nevermind about my question, I guess there is nothing special about the IS compared to other manual cars regarding rev matching.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Well, the auto IS300 starts in 2nd gear. If that says anything.

We do have a very short first gear. Nothing wrong with starting in 2nd. As long as you dont start in 5th

I was driving an M3 today, noticed the first gear was short too. Very jumpy as well. I felt like I was launching it when I was casually taking off at a stop light. Started in 2nd, had some time inbetween shifts and much smoother off the line.

However, in a AWD vehicle, You can not start in 2nd.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Yeah, I was talking about the manual for sure. I own a '02 Manual I love it so much...

Didn't know you couldn't start in 2nd in a AWD.. Never tried it.

I'm preparing for snow here, getting kick ass winter shoes installed next week! :/
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Lots of iffy info here.

I've been driving for over 20 years, and riding motorcycles for almost 30. In that time, I've only owned one automatic. Ther is absolutely nothing wrong with starting out in 2nd -AS LONG AS THE CAR DOES NOT COMPLAIN !!!!!

If the car does it easily (no stuttering, no having to rev the heck out of it, and no valve chatter from the motor trying to stall) you're perfectly fine. Your car will warn you if it's not happy. Don't lug it, and don't ride the clutch at 5k RPM.

As for "that's why you have 1st", that's all bogus. Engineers design gearboxes with all different parameters in mind. My neighbor can put his Jeep in 3rd, give it no gas, and still leave from a dead stop effortlessly. 1st and 2nd are about useless on the street, but will climb the side of a cliff. 1st gear is just a ratio, as well as is 2nd or 3rd.

Yes, you can start an AWD car in 2nd. Again, it's just a matter of gear ratio's. My wife Imprezza, with the wide ratio 5-speed, I don't recommend. The close ratio 6-speed in my buddies STi, not a problem.

I've put litterally millions of miles on all sorts of gearboxes, and have never had motor issue due to starting out in 2nd gear. I've popped motors for all other sorts of reasons, but not that. Just pay attention to what your car is telling you. If it doesn't like it, it'll let you know...
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PANIC!!! View Post
Sometimes I start from a start or a stop in second gear, but mine usually doesn't like it (kinda jerks and doesn't sound good in most cases). But the problem I have is that to get in in first, I have to be 100% stopped for like 1-2 secs, else it won't go in.
Just give the motor a good blip of the gas and it'll be much easier to get the transmission into first. This will help the synchro tremendously by bringing the input shaft speed much closer to the output shaft speed.

But we're talking about starting the car from a standstill.

Wear is hard to quantify as nothing is going to break immediately. If you were to subject a lifetime of the cars mileage to always starting in second, it is a FACT that the clutch will wear out quicker. Sometimes here and there...I wouldn't sweat it. But you will see reduced clutch life. And the IS clutch is not known to be the longest lasting.

As for motor wear...it's not as pronounced. But anytime you put more load on the motor...there is going to be more wear. All else being equal, second gear starts demand more torque which equal higher cylinder pressures which equals more wear. How much more wear...probably not in the lifetime of you owning the car.

Now if we're talking about a rolling stop....almost always second gear.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Thanks man
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:32 PM   #23 (permalink)
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comparing apples to oranges btw, not a good way to make an argument. jeeps are rock climbers. they have different ratios, how many of you have actually looked at the gear ratio difference between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the w55? tell me they're useless. shit, big rigs can take off in 2hi unloaded with no trailer, (technically 4th gear) doesnt mean shit, the ratios are earth shattering long. im not an engineer by any means, but by the way many people here are talking, some of you arent even in the running.

btw, since when does the auto trans start in 2nd gear? other than in fail safe mode? in the 2 years ive had my IS, its never taken off in anything other than 1st gear from a stop.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:37 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keseki View Post
i never spoke of acceleration in my post. i stated that same as overloading an engine, theres a such thing as underloading an engine. and the stress from that is about the same, if not worse. if you want your motor to last, use what the engineers gave you to use the way it was meant to be used. and im not speaking of throw out bearing or pilot bearing stress, im talking about main bearings. which means tearing your motor apart and changing them (best case scenario). but go ahead, destroy your motor because your too lazy to change a gear.
Fall back fam u stated that theres a first gear for a reason so I simply said I am willing to sacrifice the acceleration power of 1st for one less shift. I am listening to everyones opinion and yes at this point they are all opinions because everyone is contradicting the hell out of each other. I asked this question for a reason so why the hell would I want to destroy my motor?
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:02 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keseki View Post
is it good to rock the car by getting on the throttle then lifting off, over and over again? the same wear you cause by doing that, you do to the motor when taking off in 2nd gear.
Rock the car u mean like when ur on a hill and u roll up and down? Shit...isnt that all clutch wear? If not I gotta stop with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -JDOG- View Post
Well, the auto IS300 starts in 2nd gear. If that says anything.

We do have a very short first gear. Nothing wrong with starting in 2nd. As long as you dont start in 5th

I was driving an M3 today, noticed the first gear was short too. Very jumpy as well. I felt like I was launching it when I was casually taking off at a stop light. Started in 2nd, had some time inbetween shifts and much smoother off the line.

However, in a AWD vehicle, You can not start in 2nd.
Just curious why cant u start in 2nd in a AWD? Is it impossible or not recommended? And yes 1st gear is a midget on the 300
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Old 10-15-2009, 04:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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no, lugging/chugging the motor is really bad, its not just hard on the clutch. everything causes wear really, just some of our habits wear motors out much faster than others. i.e going up and down in speed a lot during freeway drives (causes wear, very minor, nothing to really lose sleep over) chugging the motor on and off the throttle or going up and down in speed very fast, much higher increase i wear on the motor. doing it from a stand still just adds in clutch wear. so yea, stop that... unless u mean the slight roll u get going backwards just before u continue on forward, not a big deal then, but rocking it over and over? yes, its lugging the motor.
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:55 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeCKis300 View Post
And the IS clutch is not known to be the longest lasting.......

How much more wear...probably not in the lifetime of you owning the car.

Now if we're talking about a rolling stop....almost always second gear.
The wild card here is purely about the driver. Most people here couldn't make their clutches last 30k miles...

I religiously heel-n-toe, rev-match EVERY downshift, and did weekend auto-x's for 2 seasons...

It took 157,000 miles for me to go through my OE clutch. No one has beaten that mileage. No one. But I don't know of many people who daily rev-match their car either.

Fact is, it's called first for a reason. If you want an example of what you should do, look what GM did with their trannies and the good old 1st to 4th skip shift. If you're trying to save gas start off in 1st and skip to 3rd. Less wear and tear all around.

Or be fair to all your gears, and use all of them.
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