What fails in the W55/W58 trans on high power? - my.IS - Lexus IS Forum
Welcome to the newly redesigned my.IS website - Your source for IS200, IS250, IS300, IS350 and IS-F Information.
 
b

Register | Home | Forums | News | Photos | Content | FAQ | Advertise | Store

 


Go Back   my.IS - Lexus IS Forum > 1st-Gen IS300 > Go Faster
Register Home Forum Photos Active Topics / Realtime Garage iTrader User's Guide Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowAuto LoansInsurance

My.is is the premier Lexus IS Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
» Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
Wheel & Tire Center

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-23-2010, 06:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
Follower
 
my.IS Supporter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 650
whatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community member
iTrader: (1)
What fails in the W55/W58 trans on high power?

Not having blown one up, what fails in the W55 or W58 on high power levels?

I read Toyomodo was looking at an upgrade but it wasn't cost effective, and also that SRT was looking at an upgrade.

Is there any sort of specific information on why it isn't cost effective.. i.e. you'd have to spend $1500 on 3rd gear, 4th gear, bushings, etc. and only get another 100hp out of it, or what.
whatthe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-23-2010, 06:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
Altruist
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: in the A
Posts: 3,827
Lexotic Concepts is an elite community memberLexotic Concepts is an elite community memberLexotic Concepts is an elite community memberLexotic Concepts is an elite community memberLexotic Concepts is an elite community memberLexotic Concepts is an elite community memberLexotic Concepts is an elite community memberLexotic Concepts is an elite community memberLexotic Concepts is an elite community memberLexotic Concepts is an elite community memberLexotic Concepts is an elite community member
iTrader: (27)
my w55 and the 3 w58's i had... all broke from the input shaft
__________________
wwwdotZenMotorsLLCdotcom
wwwdotfacebookdotcom/zenmotors
instagram: zenmotors
Lexotic Concepts is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-23-2010, 07:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
Follower
 
my.IS Supporter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 650
whatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community member
iTrader: (1)
Did they all break in the same spot on the input shaft? Have any pictures of the failures?
whatthe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-23-2010, 07:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Springfield,IL
Posts: 1,056
Cavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community member
iTrader: (3)
I was thinking about this today while I was driving, some input would be great.
Cavanagh is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-23-2010, 07:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Torrance LA, Camp Patriot Kuwait
Posts: 6,697
BlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community member
iTrader: (23)
the opinion used to be third gear (W55) that was the weakest, but it seems like people have managed to break damn near everything in those trannies.

I wish SRT had a good update on their W55 upgrade venture.
__________________
TokenSolutions is moving to an in-house forum and facebook. Google TokenSolutions forumer.
BlackSportD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-23-2010, 11:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
Frequenter
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 162
fastfox86 is an elite community memberfastfox86 is an elite community memberfastfox86 is an elite community memberfastfox86 is an elite community memberfastfox86 is an elite community memberfastfox86 is an elite community memberfastfox86 is an elite community memberfastfox86 is an elite community memberfastfox86 is an elite community memberfastfox86 is an elite community memberfastfox86 is an elite community member
iTrader: (0)
I'd love to see some upgrades for the W55. I know I'm going to kill mine someday. I've got 120k on it. Mostly N/A for it's life but I ran a 75 shot on it for a year with no issues. I'm going with a turbo soon though, so we'll see what happens then.
fastfox86 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-24-2010, 01:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Springfield,IL
Posts: 1,056
Cavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community memberCavanagh is an elite community member
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfox86 View Post
I'd love to see some upgrades for the W55. I know I'm going to kill mine someday. I've got 120k on it. Mostly N/A for it's life but I ran a 75 shot on it for a year with no issues. I'm going with a turbo soon though, so we'll see what happens then.
I know what you're saying! I love the feel of my W55, and enjoy it alot, but I feel if I had a good 80-100 more horses right now, it wouldn't be able to handle it(for too long).
Cavanagh is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-24-2010, 03:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
Follower
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Gabriel, CA
Posts: 620
no-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community member
iTrader: (7)
w55 just has a poor design; I'm not a transmission expert, but there is definitely a design flaw on proper energy dispersion...if a gear breaks often, it must be the power that's overwhelming the integrity of the gear i.e. bushing/shim.

I read somewhere that 3rd gear was the most symptomatic because it rode on full boost throughout the full range of RPM as opposed to 1st and 2nd, although shifting timing also plays an important factor.

I think it's more appropriate to say that W-series transmissions aren't built as sturdy as other transmission, hence less capabilities when it comes to withstanding power and user abuse. Better gears or stronger shafts alone won't resolve the matter...the basic platform cannot withstand the power on full utility. Everything breaks on this transmission.

A lot of assumptions and extrapolation in my post, sorry about that.
__________________
PM if you have any of the following:

VVTI 2JZGTE - found
W58/R154
spare headlight LENSES (the lenses need to be in good or excellent condition, I'm looking to swap these into mine and do a retrofit)
no-more is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-24-2010, 04:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
Follower
 
my.IS Supporter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 650
whatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community member
iTrader: (1)
Toyota supposedly built a stronger version that ended up behind a TT 'something' and was capable of handling 550hp. Its plastered on the net as being rare, but no specifics as to what it was behind, or how it differs. Somebody have more details on this, or know if its heresay or not?
whatthe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-24-2010, 05:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
Aficionado
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: AUT / SRB
Posts: 757
RoadRash is an elite community memberRoadRash is an elite community memberRoadRash is an elite community memberRoadRash is an elite community memberRoadRash is an elite community memberRoadRash is an elite community memberRoadRash is an elite community memberRoadRash is an elite community memberRoadRash is an elite community memberRoadRash is an elite community memberRoadRash is an elite community member
iTrader: (1)
I got some offer once from this company in Germany Euro Getriebe Technik (transl.: Euro Transmission Technic)

for about 2500-3000€ they were offering to rebuild my W55 and upgrading
it by some "Teflon-Coating" process making it capable up to 700BHP.
They can do that also on Differential gearings and stuff....

Maybe you can find some company like that in USA?!


keep in mind that I didn't crush my W55, I was just asking for an upgrade before going to hi-boost, but in the end I have swapped to V160
__________________
.
My Project II

Last edited by RoadRash; 08-24-2010 at 05:05 AM.
RoadRash is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-24-2010, 02:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
Guru
 
TeCKis300's Avatar
 
my.IS Supporter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 6,604
TeCKis300 is an elite community memberTeCKis300 is an elite community memberTeCKis300 is an elite community memberTeCKis300 is an elite community memberTeCKis300 is an elite community memberTeCKis300 is an elite community memberTeCKis300 is an elite community memberTeCKis300 is an elite community memberTeCKis300 is an elite community memberTeCKis300 is an elite community memberTeCKis300 is an elite community member
iTrader: (19)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexotic Concepts View Post
my w55 and the 3 w58's i had... all broke from the input shaft
My W58 has a broken input shaft and 3rd gear is missing a teeth. I have not opened in up completely to confirm, I may in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by no-more View Post
w55 just has a poor design; I'm not a transmission expert, but there is definitely a design flaw on proper energy dispersion...if a gear breaks often, it must be the power that's overwhelming the integrity of the gear i.e. bushing/shim.

I read somewhere that 3rd gear was the most symptomatic because it rode on full boost throughout the full range of RPM as opposed to 1st and 2nd, although shifting timing also plays an important factor.

I think it's more appropriate to say that W-series transmissions aren't built as sturdy as other transmission, hence less capabilities when it comes to withstanding power and user abuse. Better gears or stronger shafts alone won't resolve the matter...the basic platform cannot withstand the power on full utility. Everything breaks on this transmission.

A lot of assumptions and extrapolation in my post, sorry about that.
I wouldn't say the W55 or W5x has a poor design. It's actually a GREAT tranny for it's intended purpose and has fluid and positive shift feel. It simply was not designed for the sheer torque we're asking of it (~350rwtq is its limit.) I don't believe it's a limit of any particular part...it's more the tranny as a whole is not capable of supporting more power as you put it.

It's funny becuase in some circles outside of the 2JZ swap community, the supra W58 (also know as the W58 HD) is known as a very strong tranny. It's my opinion that the W55 (from IS) has all the same traits and strength of the W58 HD tranny. The weak W55 notion comes from the prior alloy sandwich plate W55 version that existed before the IS. Same goes for the alloy W58s prior to the MKIV Supra NA.
__________________
Car sold to a good new home!

Full Aristo 2JZ-GTE BPU++ - Getrag v161 - EMU - Brembo BBK - CCW Classics 9F/10.5R - 255/35F - 285/30R - AAR Arms - GReddy Type-S - Hotchkis Sways - Teck Kit - Prolex / Cusco STB - Full ICE - HKS Drager - Prosport Prem Boost/EGT/FP - Innovative LC-1/XD-16 - Goodridge SS - TRD F/R Underbrace - Greddy Profec B Spec II - Megan Toe Arms

Last edited by TeCKis300; 08-24-2010 at 09:00 PM.
TeCKis300 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-24-2010, 02:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Torrance LA, Camp Patriot Kuwait
Posts: 6,697
BlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community memberBlackSportD is an elite community member
iTrader: (23)
^ x2. The W55 is a great feeling tranny, and the engineers did a great job in regards to cutting the teeth so that noise is at a minimum (and from others research, is thus a weaker teeth design), and feel is great-- they did not have on the agenda to make the tranny hold far more power than stock 2j form, but to make it smooth and quiet. 350rwtq with the resistance of a car over 3,500lbs is not shabby when intended for less than 200. Pop a W55 in an AE86 and its "bulletproof" as the car is so light, there is no way you are connecting to the ground the torque necessary to break the tranny.

If an affordable W55 build is not possible, it would be awesome if the newer R154s found in some domestics can easily be swapped in. V160/161 is out of my reach haha. Until then my clutch upgrade will remain under the 350rwtq range to ensure it slips before delivering a death blow of torque.
__________________
TokenSolutions is moving to an in-house forum and facebook. Google TokenSolutions forumer.
BlackSportD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-25-2010, 03:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
Follower
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Gabriel, CA
Posts: 620
no-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community memberno-more is an elite community member
iTrader: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeCKis300 View Post
My W58 has a broken input shaft and 3rd gear is missing a teeth. I have not opened in up completely to confirm, I may in the future.



I wouldn't say the W55 or W5x has a poor design. It's actually a GREAT tranny for it's intended purpose and has fluid and positive shift feel. It simply was not designed for the sheer torque we're asking of it (~350rwtq is its limit.) I don't believe it's a limit of any particular part...it's more the tranny as a whole is not capable of supporting more power as you put it.

It's funny becuase in some circles outside of the 2JZ swap community, the supra W58 (also know as the W58 HD) is known as a very strong tranny. It's my opinion that the W55 (from IS) has all the same traits and strength of the W58 HD tranny. The weak W55 notion comes from the prior alloy sandwich plate W55 version that existed before the IS. Same goes for the alloy W58s prior to the MKIV Supra NA.
Seems like you're onto this transmission. You should go ahead and make some reinforced parts for us all that's still stuck with the W-series transmission =)

With that being said, this transmission should last a while on a stock GTE motor with better clutch/flywheel combo, although driving pattern does lay some effect to the lifespan of it. BlackSportD mentioned the teeth being cut to reduce the noise, which is something that I thought would be sort of a cutting-corner approach. I mean, to be honest, W55 was just dropped into the IS300 mostly to maintain the price tag and to respond to the large feedback on the manual option from the community...I feel that it's sort of a cheap response on Toyota's end. Great transmission, but something better should've been considered to say the at least.
__________________
PM if you have any of the following:

VVTI 2JZGTE - found
W58/R154
spare headlight LENSES (the lenses need to be in good or excellent condition, I'm looking to swap these into mine and do a retrofit)
no-more is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-25-2010, 11:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
Follower
 
my.IS Supporter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 650
whatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community memberwhatthe is an elite community member
iTrader: (1)
My thought was that if a stronger 550hp capable OEM transmission does exist, the different parts could be copied.
whatthe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Old 08-25-2010, 12:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
Extremist
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Birmingham/Mobile Al.
Posts: 5,171
Avernier is an elite community memberAvernier is an elite community memberAvernier is an elite community memberAvernier is an elite community memberAvernier is an elite community memberAvernier is an elite community memberAvernier is an elite community memberAvernier is an elite community memberAvernier is an elite community memberAvernier is an elite community memberAvernier is an elite community member
iTrader: (8)
I highly suggezt that anyone who hasn't already, should read the ar5 transmission thread in the go fast section
__________________
1st Gen Elitist
01 Satin White IS300 Sedan w/ Sportcross conversion.
Broken, Beaten, Ugly, Riced out, and loved. Some people will never understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Tom- View Post
Hes poor and from AL or MS or some other tragic Katrina victim state. what do you expect.
RIVALHOUSEGARAGEDOTCOM
Avernier is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  my.IS - Lexus IS Forum > 1st-Gen IS300 > Go Faster

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the my.IS - Lexus IS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. If your address is invalid, you will likely lose access to the site.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Current users viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:15 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2