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Old 04-27-2007, 12:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Synapse Engineering: Synchronic BOV, WG and FPR

OK, I saw mention of this in another thread, but I figured we can make one that covers all of products.

I for one am very excited about these parts, the design concepts are clever and they seem like they should perform very well.

What do you all think about the WG and FPR?

Here is some info about each...

Synchronic BOV

Welcome to Synapse Engineering

Quote:
  • *Innovative Piston Actuated Design Based on the Patented Synchronic Technology
    *Absolutely No Diaphragm
    *Pull-Type BOV designed to Stay Closed Under Boost
    *Detachable Re-Circulation Discharge and Interchangeable Flange
Click here to see Video

Click here to see Video

Synchronic WG

Welcome to Synapse Engineering

Quote:
  • *Patent 6,863,260
    *Interchangeable valve sizes and seats
    *Upgradeable wastegate with interchangeable actuator bodies
    *Miniature actuator for tight installations
    *Flanges and hardware will be included
    *First wastegate with built in boost control
    *On-board anti-lag functionality
    *Precision valve actuation using Synchronic actuator geometry
    *Self-Centering Piston actuator
    *No valve guide
    *Minimum of 8 different boost settings built into each Synchronic wastegate
    *Adjustable spring pre-load
    *Variable and tunable spring rates at the same boost level
    *First wastegate with a valve that can spin
Click here to see Video

Synchronic FPR

Welcome to Synapse Engineering

Quote:
  • *Direct Bolt-On to OEM Fuel Rail
    *No Diaphragm to Burst or Fail
    *Designed to withstand a direct shot of Nitrous
    *T6-6061 Billet Aluminum Construction
    *Supports Over 1100 HP
    *Adjustable From 16 psi to Over 100 psi
    *1:1, 12:1 Boost Ratio or Everything In Between
    *Designed to Adjust Fuel Flow Rat
    *Keeps Fuel Pressure for Quick Engine Starts
    *Quick Change Bypass Orifices for Fine Tuning
    Flow
    *1/7th the Size of Any Other 12:1 FPR
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I had their FPR for a while, and it crapped out on me.
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven View Post
I had their FPR for a while, and it crapped out on me.
What exactly went wrong with it? Like I said, the concepts seem very clever, but actual use is a different story, as per your case.
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Old 04-27-2007, 06:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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A bit more information for everybody...

I'm not preaching from a mountain top about this stuff; I just think the design seems excellent in theory. Application is a different story. I thought all of you might want to see it too.

Anyway, there is pretty detailed information regarding the material composition of the WG, so I would wager the BOV is similar...


Quote:
Materials

*Investment-cast stainless steel 304 for exhaust valve housing
*Al 6061 T6 for actuator housing
*High temp engineered axial contact polymer seals
*Self-lubricating Carbon Kevlar valve seal

The current philosophy is to use exotic materials, and voila your wastegate is now better. Or perhaps use exotic materials to band-aid problems like sticking valves. Our approach is to have a fundamentally sound design first, and then select the appropriate materials. We don’t want to take a bad design and simply improve it with better manufacturing and better materials. We truly want to bring you prototypical innovation, by design.

The use of 304SS for the valve housing will allow for a good mix of Nickel and Chromium content for thermal insulation, resistance to creep deformation, corrosion and high temperatures. We decided against the use of 254MA or 347SS for the casting due to the high Nickel and low Chromium content. Yes, these materials have higher strength at elevated temperatures, but they aren’t being used as stressed structural members, thereby eliminating the need for strength. 347SS and 254MA’s melting points are close to that of 304SS, which is what matters. More importantly, these materials are very high in Nickel, and the higher the Nickel, the greater the factor for thermal expansion, meaning that the parts will grow at extreme temperatures. For the one-piece valve and valve seat we are testing a high Chromium, low Nickel 400 series stainless steel that can be treated for hardness. The Chromium stabilizes the steel at high operating temperatures, maintaining the critical tolerances in extreme service. It is no wonder that legacy designs have valve sticking problems, since Nitronic SS is a high Nickel SS with a high coefficient of thermal expansion. So as temperatures elevate, the parts grow and bind with each other. Our material selection seeks to eliminate this problem. In addition, the valve stem seal used in the Synchronic wastegate will neither gall nor bind with steel at any temperature. In fact, it has a higher melting temperature than the seal, and self lubricates.

We really don’t care what material the competition uses in their diaphragms because we’ve eliminated the diaphragm altogether by using engineered polymer seals to insure sealing between the 4 unique actuation chambers of the Synchronic actuator geometry. You may have heard of other manufacturers that require special coatings to mitigate binding and sticking of their valves. This screams band-aid. Synchronic WG has no valve guide and uses the actuator geometry to guide the valve and is designed to self-center as pneumatic pressure increases.

I've got MSRP on all the stuff through my wholesaler too, it's as follows...

Name

-Missing Link 001 Revision C
-Missing Link 002 Revision B
-Missing Link 003 Revision B
-Missing Link 004 Revision B
-Missing Link 006 Revision C
-Synchronic BOV Weld Steel Silver/Black
-Synchronic BOV Weld Aluminum
-Synchronic BOV Weld Stainless Steel
-Synchronic BOV Greddy-Style Flange
-Synchronic BOV HKS Flange
-Anti-Stall Valve Kit
-Synchronic Honda/Toyota
-Synchonic FPR Nis/Toy/Maz
-Synchronic FPR Nissan/Toyota
-Synchonic FPR GM/Bosch
-Synchronic FPR Nissan/Toyota
-Synchronic FPR Nissan/Toyota
-Synchronic WG 40mm w/o Flanges - Silver
-Synchronic WG 40mm w/ Flanges - Silver
-Synchronic WG 40mm Flanges
-Synchronic WG001 Flange Seal
-Synchronic WG 50mm V-Band w/o Flanges
-Synchronic WG 50mm V-Band w/Flanges
-Synchronic WG 50mm V-Band Flange Kit
-Synchronic WG002 50mm flange seal

Description

-ML for 94UpIntegraB18,92UpCivicD16/B16,NSX,97UpPreludeH22,94UpAccordF22,00UpS2000
-ML for Upto93IntegraB16/B17/B18,UpTo91CivicD16B16,UpTo93AccordF22,UpTo96Prelud eH22/H23
-Missing Link for 420A without integrated air temp sensor
-Missing Link for Acura RSX K20 and Honda Civic D17
-Missing Link for 420A with integrated air temperature sensor
-PROMOTIONAL INTRODUCTORY PRICING: Universal Synchronic Blow-Off Valve with weld on steel flange silver cover/black body
-Synchronic BOV Billet Aluminum weld flange only
-Synchronic BOV stainless steel 303 weld flange only
-Greddy-Style adapter flange for SB001 Synchronic BOV in billet Aluminum
-HKS-style billet Aluminum flange for SB001 BOV
-Anti-stall valve kit for MAF cars with atmospheric discharge in billet Aluminum
-Syn FPR for B16,D16,B18,B20,F20,F22,H22,H23
-Syn FPR kit assembly w/adapter for select Nissan, Toyota, Mazda
-SC001 adapter kit only for select Nissan, Toyota, Mazda
-Syn FPR for LS1, LS2, LS6, VW, Audi, Porsche
-Syn FPR for expanded Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Chevrolet, BMW
-Syn FPR for expanded Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Chevrolet, BMW
-Universal 2-Bolt Synchronic wastegate kit without flanges and mounting hardware included anti-corrosion silver anodizing
-Universal 2-Bolt Synchronic wastegate kit with flanges and mounting hardware included anti-corrosion silver anodizing
-Synchronic WG 40mm Deltagate-style 2 bolt machined stainless steel flange kit with hardware
-Copper alloy exhaust seal for 40mm wastegate
-Universal v-band clamp mounted 50mm Synchronic wastegate kit without mounting flanges and clamps. Includes 2-valve seats and seals.
-Universal v-band clamp mounted 50mm Synchronic wastegate kit with mounting flanges, clamps, 2-valve seats and seals.
-Synchronic WG 50mm v-band kit. Includes (2) weld flanges and (2) clamps.
-Copper alloy exhaust seal for 50mm wastegate

Retail Price Per Unit

$65.00
$65.00
$65.00
$65.00
$65.00
$219.00
$24.99
$29.99
$24.99
$24.99
$39.99
$219.00
$232.00
$20.00
TBD
TBD
TBD
$285.00
$325.00
$60.00
$15.00
$379.00
$429.00
$89.00
$20.00

Sorry I couldn't do a legit spreadsheet, but I think you all can figure out what corresponds with what.


Introductory MSRP on the BOV is $219, and yes, there is a V-band kit for the WG.
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Old 04-28-2007, 12:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WMP View Post
What exactly went wrong with it? Like I said, the concepts seem very clever, but actual use is a different story, as per your case.
started leaking out the vacuum port, then it went and leaked all from the top. Ask Steez as well, he was there and saw it leaking.
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Old 04-28-2007, 09:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Oh I believe you, like I said, theory and practice are two different things entirely.


My intentions with posting all this are strictly informational.
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Old 04-28-2007, 10:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WMP View Post
I'm not preaching from a mountain top about this stuff; I just think the design seems excellent in theory.
Why is it excellent in theory?
How is it different than what we currently use other than the absence of a diaphram (which I don't believe any of us have had problems with)
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Old 04-28-2007, 11:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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In theory, you do lose some response with a diaphragm, as you do waste some vacuum energy stretching the diaphragm. Replacing this with a piston ensures that all the vacuum will go towards moving the valve.

In practice, I don't think it makes much difference. Also, it looked like their valve was staying open at idle - which will mess me up since I'm using a MAF.

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Old 04-29-2007, 12:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin.b View Post
In theory, you do lose some response with a diaphragm, as you do waste some vacuum energy stretching the diaphragm. Replacing this with a piston ensures that all the vacuum will go towards moving the valve.

In practice, I don't think it makes much difference. Also, it looked like their valve was staying open at idle - which will mess me up since I'm using a MAF.

-Justin
Right...so basically a re-design of something that works perfectly fine already. I think it was a waste of time. I don't believe it'll really improve anything.
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Old 04-29-2007, 07:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Most of what is used today was reversed engineered out of necessity for a turbocharged engine. We were having compressor surge = wastegate.. We needed to Blow off excess air = BOV.

I like what he is doing, taking a fresh approach to OLD tech.. Most companies simply made new shells for the same OLD technology.. others used exotic alloys .

Is he reinventing? Yes, but is that a bad thing. Ask the Wright brothers.. or Edison. Took them awhile to get it right, Shit, we are still breaking records.. LEDs, Scramjet..

It is a neat trick to have a BOV work instantly... but is it going to save our engines?

Would a wastegate that didnt leak be Badf'n ass? Yes, rock steady boost FTW! Cant blame it on the controller until you have a closed system.. Waste money on electronic controllers... Hmm
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Old 04-29-2007, 09:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieSleeps View Post
Right...so basically a re-design of something that works perfectly fine already. I think it was a waste of time. I don't believe it'll really improve anything.
I dunno. If wastegates are leaking then you're losing boost. Not sure how exactly the wg is going to leak past the diaphragm unless it was mis-assembled or an old, worn diaphragm. I'm not going to an external wastegate any time soon so it's not an issue for me... I'm stuck with what I got.

Bpynckel, take it easy. I think swapping a diaphragm for an o-ring is quite a way off from inventing the first airplane.

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Old 04-29-2007, 09:17 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bpynckel View Post
Is he reinventing? Yes, but is that a bad thing. Ask the Wright brothers.. or Edison. Took them awhile to get it right, Shit, we are still breaking records.. LEDs, Scramjet..
He's not reinventing. He's just using a substitute technology - one that is commonly known and accepted as a substitute technology.

I'm not putting him down and hell, if his stuff ends up working better than the crap we've become accustomed to then that's great.

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Old 04-29-2007, 10:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I dabbled in pull type bovs before and it was fooey. The response of that BOV is as nice as the supercharger BOVs we're using now. Also, who says that wastegate he tested wasn't a polished up piece of crap?

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Old 04-30-2007, 06:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I was thinking about this in the shower this morning. (Yes, I am kind of a geek.)

One of the strong disdvantages of a piston-type valve in this application is thermal expansion. The metal objects will expand, which will make them less likely to seal properly. You're probably only going to about 300 degrees on a BOV, but a wastegate can see five times that temperature.

When a diapgragm-type valve's housing expands, it will just stretch the diaphragm to its new dimensions. Uniform expansion of the piston, housing and o-rings are very unlikely in the piston design.

Maybe they've worked around this... but a room-temperature fishtank is not where a wastegate works every day.

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Old 04-30-2007, 07:08 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieSleeps View Post
Why is it excellent in theory?
How is it different than what we currently use other than the absence of a diaphram (which I don't believe any of us have had problems with)
Well then that's good that you haven't had any problems, but I have personally seen several diaphragm BOVs fail (leak or tear) at high psi, including the GReddy Type-S and HKS SSQV.

As I said, I'm not claiming these to be the second coming of turbocharging, I just thought they were interesting and you all might want to see some more information about the parts.
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