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Old 08-20-2007, 10:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Power Limits of the W58?...

Looking for a solid opinion from all experienced. Search...? Yeah, call guiness as I would have the search record . From what I gather, around 400 rwhp. out of the 3 swaps, this is by a landslide, the most cost effective/easiest to do for someone wanting to make 400-450RWHP.

Especially if you have to yank out the tranny anyway to replace a squeeling release bearing and you already have an upgraded clutch (hmmm...380 torque limit..? ).

Who's running this setup / how long / power ect...

I think there's just 3 items needed...W58 slave cylinder, clutch fork...and....???

I do realize the gearing is far from ideal (very long gears) but with 400-450 rwhp, shouldn't be much of an issue. car will be pretty fast
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02 IS300 Onyx 5-Speed - Boosted 8 PSI, Tein SS Coilovers w/ EDFC, NGK Wideband, Greddy SP2 Exhaust, Stage 3 Spec Clutch, B&M short shifter, Angel Eye's, TRD Gauge Pod w/ Blitz Gauges, Carbon Fiber Front Lip, 18" Super Advan's in Gunmetal Wrapped in Yokohamma Advan Sport's 225/40 & 255/35,Haltech E6X, Well.. the W58 goes in first then the R154!!!
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I dont know why you started yet another thread about the w58. You said you aleady searched and found the answers.

450whp is about the max...slightly over depending on driving style.

Also, I assume your turning up the boost? You arent going to make 450whp a 8lbs?

This will answer anything else...

W58 Transmission... Review and Mini Tutorial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
Hey everyone, I put in a W58 transmission into my car as a temporary solution until I can gather all my parts for my future transmission swap. Its either going to be the R154 or something crazy and unique.. Who knows..

But anyway, here it goes.. This transmission came out of a 1992 Lexus SC300 with an alleged 63,000 miles on it. I dont know how much truth that has, but it doesnt matter, it works for now.

Anyway, I will tell you about the tranmission first, then get into what is needed to do the swap successfully so you dont have to take it down again. I did this on my garage floor with 4 jackstands. The transmission is 4 fold better than the stock W55 5speed. Its more stable, the gears are more quiet and feel tons more solid when driving. The stock trans would shake and vibrate when being pushed. For example, if i was flooring it in 2nd gear, my shifter would start the rock side to side and make noise. The W58 is rock solid in this manner. It keeps its composure much better under loads. Based on other's experiences, DO NOT push this trans in 5th gear, and I can see why. 5th is the overdrive gear and its long and it will strain this thing like there is no tomorrow.

Gearing.... Well, the gears are much talled than the w55. My 2nd gear goes to 68 MPH. THis was confirmed with having a stock IS drive next to me at various speeds. At 50 MPH on an accurate speedometer, my car reads 44. The accuracy seems to become less as the speed increases. 1st gear is taller, but i still spin my tires nontheless. 2nd gear pulls extremely well and is ok for turbo, but in a way I wish the gears werent this long and would rather have a higher revving motor. Thats my preference though. So, to you 6 speed folks, I think you should maybe consider keeping your stock rear end, and rebuilding your head for an 8k redline.

3rd gear on the W55 is better in my opinion. It was the power gear and the car hauled ass. It does the same in the W58, but not as much. 4th havent done much testing, but its the same as its 1:1, so it cant be any different. 5th, is long... You will most definetely get better gas mileage with this gearing. At 70+ MPH the Tach is well under 3k RPMS.

Now... what to do to put this sucker in....
Things you must retain from your stock transmission:
1) Stock Bellhousing
2) Tailshaft and shift lever selector
3) Stock shifter
4) Stock lower trans mount

What tools will you need:
1) AIR TOOLS MAN!!!!
2) Permatex The Right Stuff gasket material for sealing the tailshaft
3) White out, or the service manual so you can line up the driveshaft for proper balance. The white out is used to create matchmarks.
4) Various sockets, impact sockets, Long 36 inch extension to access the 2 TOP bellhousing nuts. These are very easy to get out if you have a long extension..
5)3 floor jacks, 4 or more jackstands, and a peice of 2x4

Now... the trans is a BIATCH to get out if you do it the way everyone else does it... I tried something new... Place a jack and 2x4 under the front Subframe cross member. Unbolt the 4 subframe bolts (17MM). Lower this member about 2 inches or so. The trans should simply pop out without any difficulty at this point.

To remove all the bellhousing bolts, you must first dismantle the first half of the driveshaft. You dont need to remove it from the rear differential, waste of time. Then remove the 3rd Engine mount which is holding up the tailshaft of the trans. Once remove, the engine and trans will tilt down giving you some clearance to get an extension in there. Remove all the nuts. Some are 14MM, some are 17MM. The starter bolts are the most difficult to remove.

Remove the Red slave cylinder off the transmission as it gets in the way.

Now the transmission should come right out. Take about 5 minutes of finessing to get it out, but it coems out.

Now that you got that fucker out.. Dismantle the clutch throwout bearing and fork. THen remove the bellhousing nuts. All are 14MM. Use a rubber mallet and slightly start tapping the bellhousin till it pops off. THere is a guide pin in the bellhousing, so dont hit it to hard, or you will crack the metal.

Now, remove your Tail shaft... MAKE SURE BOTH TRANSMISSIONS ARE IN NEUTRAL!!! All the tailshaft bolts are 14mm as well. once out, you have to use a chisel and find a spot to hit the chisel in as its held on with gasket material. Once you get it out, remove the gasket material with a gasket scraper and clean mating surface well, as you dont want leaks....

The W58 is easy to take apart... Our w55 is more involved. You must removed the 6 bolts at the top of the tail shaft that hold your shifter bolts into. Once you get access into there, you will see a 12MM nut that is bolted into a shaft. Remove this and the 2 24MM nuts on the SIDE rear of the tailshaft... Now the entire tailshaft should come apart. Pull up gently so you dont bend any shift forks.

Place your old parts onto the W58 transmission. stick your stock shifter in and make sure you aligned everything properly and you are getting access to ALL your gears.

Now... put your transmission back in.. It takes about 20 minutes of finessing with 3 people doing this. A jack must be place at the front of the trans to help push it up. It must go in at an angle with the rear tilted down, or you wont get enough clearance. Once you get the input shaft to clear your clutch pressure plate forks, you will need someone to rotate the crank very slowly enough so the spline pops into the crankshaft. Once you get her in, go ahead and place jackstand at the end of the trans and make sure the front is support and start bolting the transmission back up... Put everything back in order as you took it apart.....

Here is the proper order so you do it effeciently for taking things apart:
1)Remove midpipe exhaust underneath
2)Remove lower trans brace (3rd engine mount)
3)Remove front half of propeller shaft
4)Undo subframe bolts. (you also must remove the front suspension brace, its easy)
5)Remove trans bolts.

Anyway, hope this helps... I will keep you updated on this transmission as I will probably be running this for at least a month or so. Hopefully it wont pop on me.

In my opinion, its a decent transmission, but it should in NO WAY be considered as a permanent solution. If you are a low powered IS300, this will work for you just fine, just dont tear it up in 5th.
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
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ive gone through a couple of these tranny's. I seem to break my tranny's in any gear I want.

But if i had to make an educated guess, ide say the torque capacity is about 430-460, and thats if you mate the transmission with a FULL FACE organic stock DISC and heavier pressure plate like the RPS. A 6 puck clutch will break this transmission with even 300 RWHP.
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks guys: The main thing I was looking for. 430-460 tq with the magic clutch setup - thanks malek!...Looks like the swap would be worthwhile.

300iss - of course I'm turning up the boost
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:13 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinrobbieredstar View Post
Thanks guys: The main thing I was looking for. 430-460 tq with the magic clutch setup - thanks malek!...Looks like the swap would be worthwhile.

300iss - of course I'm turning up the boost
You should re-read the last paragraph Malek wrote. I'll knock on wood, but I'm still on the W55 w/Clutchmasters stage 4 four puck. Personally, I don't think there is much difference between it and the W58 as far as strength goes. I would bet that the inerds are more similar than different except for the gearing ratios, not the strength of the metal. I would agree that you can't beat on this tranny too much if you expect it to live. Be very mindful of the type of fluid you use in it. I run two types of Redline with there friction modifier and it makes the gearbox very slick shifting. If you are going to change out the tranny, find you an R154 and do it right.

I will disagree with Malek on the shift quality of the two trannies. I've owned both and the W55 with the B&M short shifter is one of the nicest gear boxes I've had my hands on. It's not quite Miata like, but I like how it positively goes into gear with a nice mechanical feel and sound. I would say that the short shifter is probably responsible for most of the feel of the W55.
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinrobbieredstar View Post

I think there's just 3 items needed...W58 slave cylinder, clutch fork...and....???
You don't need any of those items. There is really only one thing you need, the W58 tranny core. Everything else can be taken from the W55. Even the clutch is optional.

I did significant research on these two trannies before I swapped. The standing rumor is that the later W58s had steel sandwich plates vs allow sandwich plates in the W55 which lends it it's slightly increased strength. I do believe this as the W58 has been well characterized in the NA Supra which has been around for a significant amount of time. It is heavier so for that community to consistently say 400-450 is the limit...

Which does contrast with the IS experiences of the W55 breaking at mid 300s.

Check out my thread here for more info:
W58 Swap...Questions and Answers
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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read above Rockinrobie. You need the slave cylinder, and misc. items from your current transmission.
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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This is exactly the info I was looking for thanks teckis3oo. I could probably sell the W55 and buy a w58 even trade...easy. Or just keep the W55 around. Just in case . Malek: what is the name of that friction modifier you run? Can I keep my B&M short shifter?
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01 IS300 E-Shift Blue Mica-Stock with Pimpin Body Kit (DD)

02 IS300 Onyx 5-Speed - Boosted 8 PSI, Tein SS Coilovers w/ EDFC, NGK Wideband, Greddy SP2 Exhaust, Stage 3 Spec Clutch, B&M short shifter, Angel Eye's, TRD Gauge Pod w/ Blitz Gauges, Carbon Fiber Front Lip, 18" Super Advan's in Gunmetal Wrapped in Yokohamma Advan Sport's 225/40 & 255/35,Haltech E6X, Well.. the W58 goes in first then the R154!!!

Last edited by rockinrobbieredstar; 08-21-2007 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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^^ No you can't sell your W55 for an even trade as you will need to scavenge the bellhousing, shifter housing (depending on which W58 you get) and speed sensor.
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinrobbieredstar View Post
This is exactly the info I was looking for thanks teckis3oo. I could probably sell the W55 and buy a w58 even trade...easy. Or just keep the W55 around. Just in case . Malek: what is the name of that friction modifier you run? Can I keep my B&M short shifter?
i just use Mobil1 75w-90 gear oil. Works well. Forget royal purple. Redline is great too.
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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This is exactly the info I was looking for thanks teckis3oo. I could probably sell the W55 and buy a w58 even trade...easy. Or just keep the W55 around. Just in case . Malek: what is the name of that friction modifier you run? Can I keep my B&M short shifter?

Ok, My clutch is a spec stage 3. Thought I could use it but I think I read somewhere it may be a 6 puck (whatever that means?) which means I would need a new clutch.

New clutch + tranny swap = starting to add up to the cost of an R-154 swap

Would this clutch work with r-154?....nope because of the 1Jz bellhousing. Different clutch all together right?
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02 IS300 Onyx 5-Speed - Boosted 8 PSI, Tein SS Coilovers w/ EDFC, NGK Wideband, Greddy SP2 Exhaust, Stage 3 Spec Clutch, B&M short shifter, Angel Eye's, TRD Gauge Pod w/ Blitz Gauges, Carbon Fiber Front Lip, 18" Super Advan's in Gunmetal Wrapped in Yokohamma Advan Sport's 225/40 & 255/35,Haltech E6X, Well.. the W58 goes in first then the R154!!!
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinrobbieredstar View Post
................. Can I keep my B&M short shifter?

Ok, My clutch is a spec stage 3. Thought I could use it but I think I read somewhere it may be a 6 puck (whatever that means?) which means I would need a new clutch.

New clutch + tranny swap = starting to add up to the cost of an R-154 swap

Would this clutch work with r-154?....nope because of the 1Jz bellhousing. Different clutch all together right?
Yes you should be able to use your B&M shifter

You do not need a new clutch, if your stage 3 is a 6puck, just buy a disk like the ACT disk ($80shipped), or any disk that from a Supra, SC300 car. I am assuming you have a solid flywheel and a sprung disk right? If not, just get a stock replacement disk for about $60
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks Kponti! Dishin out some rep for all. This post has been an incredible help to me with what I believe to be the most troublesome decision for the IS owner...The Transmission/Clutch setup.
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02 IS300 Onyx 5-Speed - Boosted 8 PSI, Tein SS Coilovers w/ EDFC, NGK Wideband, Greddy SP2 Exhaust, Stage 3 Spec Clutch, B&M short shifter, Angel Eye's, TRD Gauge Pod w/ Blitz Gauges, Carbon Fiber Front Lip, 18" Super Advan's in Gunmetal Wrapped in Yokohamma Advan Sport's 225/40 & 255/35,Haltech E6X, Well.. the W58 goes in first then the R154!!!
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You mean this disk?
ACT Clutch Modified Street Disc: TYSD018M
Code: TYSD018M
Your Price: $87.33
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01 IS300 E-Shift Blue Mica-Stock with Pimpin Body Kit (DD)

02 IS300 Onyx 5-Speed - Boosted 8 PSI, Tein SS Coilovers w/ EDFC, NGK Wideband, Greddy SP2 Exhaust, Stage 3 Spec Clutch, B&M short shifter, Angel Eye's, TRD Gauge Pod w/ Blitz Gauges, Carbon Fiber Front Lip, 18" Super Advan's in Gunmetal Wrapped in Yokohamma Advan Sport's 225/40 & 255/35,Haltech E6X, Well.. the W58 goes in first then the R154!!!
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Do you have the stock flywheel and PP? If so, you will need an unsprung disk.
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