Carputer equipment discussion

[xencloud]

Ok, so now that some other issues have been discussed and taken care of, I think we should have a discussion about the actual computer hardware that needs to be used. Carputers are specialized machines, and the carputer I'm building specifically will be the absolute core of my sound processing for audio. Video features won't be as important. (plus a ps3 could be run to a secondary video in on the screen, computer games really aren't necessary, just the audio processing will be needed)

Here's my needs, I have some ideas of what would be good to use, but I'd like to start some discussion from scrath to see what we come up with. This thread can be for computer gurus as well as for audio guys:

1)For SQ purposes, I need a computer that will be able to do well in a passive cooling situation. I might be able to use peltier coolers, etc., but fans will cause noise pickup. This goes for the GFX card too. This means the use of efficient, low heat, low power consumption processors. My DSP programs will cause quite a large load to be put on the processor, 10 channels of audio requires a console audio program with about 20-30 plugins to be open at once to process everything. It might require a multiple processor board. What's the most powerful processor for this task? (64 bit a plus b/c I would like the option to use up and coming OS's)

2)Motherboard would preferably have DDR2 memory, PCI-e slot for GFX, lots of room to expand for drives, PCI slots, etc.

3)GFX card: I need the most powerful PCI-e card available that does not have a fan built on to it. This computer won't be used for many graphically intense games or video, so this is all that will be necessary.

4)lots of USB 2.0 ports (maybe 8 or so), plus I need multiple serial ports for some specialty connections.

5)Needs lots of fast, speedy hard disk space, possibly a VERY fast disk to run the OS off of.

That's about it. I think my problem will be trying to find the best, most powerful CPU/motherboard combo available without getting to much heat. The optical drive will be USB connected, along with lots of other goodies.

Any suggestions would be great! Please le me know what you tihnk would be best! Thanks!


2)

[azzurro]

A lot of points here. I'll address some more when I have time.

But, for starters, you're going to need some fans. There's no way around it, unless you have another way to deal with the heat problem.

Peltier cooling is not an easy thing to get right. I don't even know if you can do it properly in the car. They generate a lot of heat and use a lot of power.

Here's something nice I found today: http://www.overclockers.com/tips1144/
I think you'll like it.

Are you on the stock bumper now? You could do something similar through the opening beside the fogs, like LMS does with their CAI. Not sure how much room you have there with the intercooler and all the piping though, but could be a cool project

Using a PCI-e card is a disaster waiting to happen. Are there any that aren't power hungry? Providing the power isn't a huge deal, but the heat is going to be difficult to contend with.

There are fans that are very, very quiet.

I'm not sure how powerful of a computer you'll need. Why don't you try running the software and all of the plug-ins on computers you have now, and see how they do?

[xencloud]

Well, after thinking about the kind of processing power I'm gonna need, you're probably right, I'll need some fans. There's gotta be some PCI-e cards that don't have fans though! I don't need a mega-graphics card anyway.....

Right now I'm thinking it's going to take something REAL powerful for the processing. I know one guy who has done something like this on a home system running an Athlon 4000+ and it was only able to handle a 3 way setup (6 speakers) WITHOUT doing any kind of video stuff at the same time.

So what would it take for 10 speakers?

I'm figuring a 64bit dual core system. lol

^^and that radiator idea might come in very handy, I like it!

[azzurro]

Why not just use integrated video? I'm just worried about the extra heat.

There might be a PCIe card available with a heatsink only. Try checking out the HTPC and silent computing sites that are out there.

I know that when I was looking at cards for an HTPC application (before PCIe existed), there was a good Radeon available with a heatsink only. It was hard to find (to purchase) though.

Processing power required for audio processing is really dependant upon the nature of processing being done and the software itself. There are ways to do this processing cheap (in terms of processor usage) and ways that are more intensive. There's also a lot of software that just isn't efficient.

Determining how much processing power you need is important. The newer processors generate waaaay too much heat.

Although it would be nice to wait for the new dual-core Pentium Ms.

Do you know what kind of software and plugins you will be using?

Edit: Sapphire ATI Radeon X300SE. Don't know if it's any good.

[xencloud]

Yes, I know exactly what software and plugins I will be using

I got an update from the guy who has tried doing this and he said the Athlon 4000+ starts to crumble when you do both the 3 way audio processing on top of 5.1 surround and 1080i resolution video, so that gives me a little room to play with now if I just use it mostly for audio........but I need it to do EVERYTHING without missing a beat...

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm still researching right now. I would love to run something like a dual core Athlon Turion 64 or Pentium M.......that would be ideal, but $$$$$$$$$$$ When's the ETA on those processors?


p.s.-what is HTPC?

[Sentinel]

htpc = home theatre pc
athlon 4000 should have ZERO problem doing what you have listed.

I suspect the problem might shitty sound card.

And what screen will you have in your car that has 1080i resolution? and where are you getting 1080i video from in the first place?

Originally Posted by xencloud

Yes, I know exactly what software and plugins I will be using

I got an update from the guy who has tried doing this and he said the Athlon 4000+ starts to crumble when you do both the 3 way audio processing on top of 5.1 surround and 1080i resolution video, so that gives me a little room to play with now if I just use it mostly for audio........but I need it to do EVERYTHING without missing a beat...

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm still researching right now. I would love to run something like a dual core Athlon Turion 64 or Pentium M.......that would be ideal, but $$$$$$$$$$$ When's the ETA on those processors?


p.s.-what is HTPC?

[azzurro]

Originally Posted by xencloud

Yes, I know exactly what software and plugins I will be using

Care to share?

Originally Posted by Sentinel

I suspect the problem might shitty sound card.

I don't agree about the sound card. The sound card is not doing much processing. ASIO can only do so much... the work is all done by the PC.

Originally Posted by Sentinel

athlon 4000 should have ZERO problem doing what you have listed.

It really depends on the processing being done. I can show you a plug-in that will bring the Athlon to its knees. And I'm talking about one instance, let alone 10 channels * 30 plugins...

Originally Posted by Sentinel

And what screen will you have in your car that has 1080i resolution? and where are you getting 1080i video from in the first place?

Austin is referring to the guy with the HTPC.

[azzurro]

Also, one more thing...

It is actually possible to off-load the task of sound processing by using dedicated DSP boards. For example, there is the TC Electronic Powercore....

http://www.tcelectronic.com/

[xencloud]

^^Interesting find there azzurro, thanks!

Also, here's the (similar) project I'm doing in my car, but I'm doing my whole system (10 speakers total....custom 3 way setup up front, 2 rear speakers on the rear deck, and 2 12" subs).

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=1

Take a look at how the plugins are setup, and you see how it could easily become 30 plugins running at once. Keep in mind that some of the software required to run this is mega expensive, but I found it for free already :>)

Really, besides the obvious benefits of haveing a carputer, the only real advantage to having a computer do your DSP is ROOM CORRECTION. As far as audio SQ goes, this is pretty fascinating stuff, and computers are currently the only devices that can do this (in a home or in a car)

[azzurro]

Nice link!

I have used Waves and Voxengo plug-ins and they are very nice. There are so many great things available, once you enter the world of VST.

[Sentinel]

4000 pc should have no problem doing it unless the software you are running is SUPER inefficient.

Originally Posted by azzurro

Care to share?



I don't agree about the sound card. The sound card is not doing much processing. ASIO can only do so much... the work is all done by the PC.



It really depends on the processing being done. I can show you a plug-in that will bring the Athlon to its knees. And I'm talking about one instance, let alone 10 channels * 30 plugins...



Austin is referring to the guy with the HTPC.

[Sentinel]

Originally Posted by xencloud

Yes, I know exactly what software and plugins I will be using

I got an update from the guy who has tried doing this and he said the Athlon 4000+ starts to crumble when you do both the 3 way audio processing on top of 5.1 surround and 1080i resolution video, so that gives me a little room to play with now if I just use it mostly for audio........but I need it to do EVERYTHING without missing a beat...

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm still researching right now. I would love to run something like a dual core Athlon Turion 64 or Pentium M.......that would be ideal, but $$$$$$$$$$$ When's the ETA on those processors?


p.s.-what is HTPC?

Im confused what exactly are you planning on doing with this setup? A major box is going to require alot of space alot of cooling and alot of power.

[azzurro]

Originally Posted by Sentinel

4000 pc should have no problem doing it unless the software you are running is SUPER inefficient.

I respectfully disagree.

Allow me to quote myself:

Originally Posted by azzurro

It really depends on the processing being done. I can show you a plug-in that will bring the Athlon to its knees. And I'm talking about one instance, let alone 10 channels * 30 plugins...

This statement still stands. It's not a question of efficiency. The issue is more along the lines of accuracy and the specific DSP algorigthm being employed.

However: I do believe that you should be able to implement a very competent system without incredible processor demands.

I believe that my current carPC set-up, with a little more RAM, will be able to handle this task.

I'm going to do some experimentation. Unfortunately my sound card is being RMA'd as we speak, and the on-board sound sucks and does not have any ASIO support... which makes it useless. Plus I don't, and won't, have my sub installed for a while.

[Sentinel]

I dont think I full understand what you are trying to do.

Originally Posted by azzurro

I respectfully disagree.

Allow me to quote myself:



This statement still stands. It's not a question of efficiency. The issue is more along the lines of accuracy and the specific DSP algorigthm being employed.

However: I do believe that you should be able to implement a very competent system without incredible processor demands.

I believe that my current carPC set-up, with a little more RAM, will be able to handle this task.

I'm going to do some experimentation. Unfortunately my sound card is being RMA'd as we speak, and the on-board sound sucks and does not have any ASIO support... which makes it useless. Plus I don't, and won't, have my sub installed for a while.

[xencloud]

What we are talking about doing is turning our computers into a full X-over/EQ/digital processor for our entire sound system. When you take into account the sampling rates of these programs, you'll see why they require so much CPU power. (as far as power and cooling, the requiremtns are a lot, but as far as space, it can be done pretty compactly)

Running these programs through a computer will allow for some very cool features and sound quality improvements that have previously been near impossible for the average person to implement in a car environment without a carputer.

Please follow that link I posted and read up to get a better idea of what I'm doing.....